[BON-7133]Hiding tracks with EuCon? HELP Steinberg!

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[BON-7133]Hiding tracks with EuCon? HELP Steinberg!

Post by J-S-Q » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:03 am

I just came across this post from Steinberg saying that they hoped it would be possible to hide tracks on a EuCon controller once EuCon v3 was released:

viewtopic.php?f=195&t=53030#p384704

Now that EuCon v3 is out, is there any progress on implementing this feature? Perhaps Guillermo can comment?
Last edited by J-S-Q on Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Outsounder » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:09 pm

You can recall 8 different configurations that have been created and saved using the visibility selectors using the touch screen/soft buttons on the artist control.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:14 am

Outsounder wrote:You can recall 8 different configurations that have been created and saved using the visibility selectors using the touch screen/soft buttons on the artist control.
Yes, but that's not the same as having full control over showing/hiding tracks instantly with Cubase visibility functions. If this was implemented it would be a huge step forward.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:33 pm

Would love to get some official Steinberg comment on this? :D
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Outsounder » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:00 pm

It still allows eight different views, one for each of eight folders. Any combination of macro short cut key command ban be assigned to a soft key on the artist control. Haven't really looked to see if there is a one for the single click needed to open and close a folder in the arrange page, though it depends on how many folders a user has.

The method described is extremely effective and works out of the box, as do most keyboard short cut commands. It would be great if there were more than eight configurations available on the MC, though there are three Mix Comsoles available bringing the total potential to different 24 views. One of the great things about Eucon is that the mouse and keyboard soon become quite redundant for most things other than fine editing and typing to name tracks/folders and projects etc. Maybe even more so with the new iPad Control.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:22 pm

Outsounder wrote:It still allows eight different views, one for each of eight folders. Any combination of macro short cut key command ban be assigned to a soft key on the artist control. Haven't really looked to see if there is a one for the single click needed to open and close a folder in the arrange page, though it depends on how many folders a user has.
I guess you are talking about EuCon Layouts. Yes, that's good and I use them all the time but I'm going to copy/paste a post I made about it elsewhere on this forum:

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 28&t=79223

"I have a big project, say 200 tracks. I want to focus on 8 synth tracks that are scattered through the project. If I want to see them all together on my S3 I have to create a layout. This will involve opening EuControl and probably around twenty mouse clicks, scrolling through a list of 200 tracks to find the ones I want. Then I might want to show the same tracks on my Cubase mixer so I have to go and set that up as well. Probably takes about 5 minutes. Then when I’m finished, I have to go back into EuControl and unassign my tracks. By this point I’m way way quicker just using my mouse.

OR…. here’s what I could do if they implemented what I’m talking about.

I can select the MIDI or Audio parts I’m interested in and hit the ’Show Tracks With Selected Events’ key command. And then…. Done! That’s it! One button pressed (or Eucon softkey) and my controller, my Cubase mixer and my arrange page all show the tracks I want to work with and nothing else to get in my way. When I’m finished I can use the ‘Undo Visibility Change’ key command to bring all my tracks back.

5 minutes versus 5 seconds. :) For me personally, this would easily double how useful the controller is."
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:29 pm

Another benefit would be that Cubase already effectively has 'VCA Spill' built into it. It's one of the Visibility Agents called 'Show Channels Connected to the First Selected Channels'. Select a VCA, hit that key command and your tracks are spilled over the control surface.... .....except currently this won't work on a EuCon controller because all the tracks you've just hidden in Cubase will still be there on the control surface. What a shame!
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Outsounder » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:42 pm

Tend to create eight folder tracks right at start of template the add specific types of track to correct folder on the way, so much easier than dragging tracks all about at a later stage. Not sure if pro tools can do what you want though it's all about keyboard macro's really and what's available in different daws.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:26 pm

Outsounder wrote:Tend to create eight folder tracks right at start of template the add specific types of track to correct folder on the way, so much easier than dragging tracks all about at a later stage. Not sure if pro tools can do what you want though it's all about keyboard macro's really and what's available in different daws.
I appreciate the replies but I feel like we might be talking about different things. The problem I'm talking about is that when I hide tracks in Cubase, I don't want to have them still visible on my EuCon control surface. I don't understand how folders, macros, key commands etc can solve this problem although they may be partial work arounds. :)

e.g. I have a 200 track session. I want to work on track 4, track 67, and track 109. I want to hide all the other tracks and ONLY see these three tracks on my control surface, ALL NEXT TO EACH OTHER. Currently this would take about 5 minutes and several dozen mouse clicks to achieve!
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Outsounder » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:34 pm

The mathematical permutations of show/hide any two or three tracks at random, on demand, at the speed of though with a single key click, on a two hundred count project as you describe defies logic.

Your best method to achieve a similar task would be to create a visabilty view with no tracks selected and save it two one of the eight slots available.

With the track list open on that view, you could simple control/alt click (or cmnd/alt click on a Mac)n the two or three tracks you want to view. The top track displayed on your resulting view will always be on the leftmost fader on the eucon controller., simply using the up/down arrows to select the next or previous task which would then move that track the leftmost fader on your controller.

You could also use the project logical editor to achieve and save variations on a theme so to speak.

Anything more would I feel, would be down to avid to figure out out and not Steinberg who simply translate the features of current release versions of Eucon to available key commands, factory set or user created within Cubase/Nuendo. When you've finished your tweaking, just select another view to continue, views can always be updated if you wanted to save any particular one for quick recall.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:07 pm

Outsounder wrote:The mathematical permutations of show/hide any two or three tracks at random, on demand, at the speed of though with a single key click, on a two hundred count project as you describe defies logic.
It is already a key command in Cubase called 'Show Only Selected Tracks'. I just want this to also happen on my controller. What exactly is so strange about this that it defies logic????? It's a feature that is on the Nuage controller. Why? Because it is extremely useful! I believe it also works on MCU controllers. Why not EuCon?
Outsounder wrote:Your best method to achieve a similar task would be to create a visabilty view with no tracks selected and save it two one of the eight slots available.

With the track list open on that view, you could simple control/alt click (or cmnd/alt click on a Mac)n the two or three tracks you want to view. The top track displayed on your resulting view will always be on the leftmost fader on the eucon controller., simply using the up/down arrows to select the next or previous task which would then move that track the leftmost fader on your controller.

You could also use the project logical editor to achieve and save variations on a theme so to speak.

Anything more would I feel, would be down to avid to figure out out and not Steinberg who simply translate the features of current release versions of Eucon to available key commands, factory set or user created within Cubase/Nuendo. When you've finished your tweaking, just select another view to continue, views can always be updated if you wanted to save any particular one for quick recall.
Yes, I know about all this but none of it is anywhere near as simple/fast as if we just had proper track visibility functionality in EuCon. I gave an example in post 6 of this thread. 5 minutes versus 5 seconds!

Whether it is down to Avid or Steinberg is exactly what I am trying to find out with this thread. In 2014, Guillermo from Steinberg posted here saying that it should be possible once EuCon v3 is released. Now that it has been released, I would like to know a) Is it now technically possible and b) is it likely to actually be implemented?
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Outsounder » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:20 am

Try this...select a few random tracks in your project, then right click and move those tracks to a new folder. The new folder will be highlighted and all the tracks in that should then be sequentially laid out from channel one of your controller.

The problem then might be undoing that action to a new folde once your done.

The sync between project and mixer views leaves a bit t to be desired as does undo on mixer...
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:23 am

Outsounder wrote:Try this...select a few random tracks in your project, then right click and move those tracks to a new folder. The new folder will be highlighted and all the tracks in that should then be sequentially laid out from channel one of your controller.

The problem then might be undoing that action to a new folde once your done.

The sync between project and mixer views leaves a bit t to be desired as does undo on mixer...
Yes, I've tried the 'folder trick' in the past and it's no good because you then have to manually reposition all the tracks when you've finished.

Trust me, I know EVERY work around in the book on this one but none of them are as good as if they would JUST IMPLEMENT TRACK VISIBILITY IN EUCON! :)
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:33 am

I want this too. Would be a huge time saver for me.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Outsounder » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:11 pm

Does this feature actually work on protools I wonder? Eucon itself is a fantastic protocol though the implementation in Cubase itself seems a bit random on the default configuration out of the box with hardly any instruction/tutorials available online.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:37 pm

Outsounder wrote:Does this feature actually work on protools I wonder? Eucon itself is a fantastic protocol though the implementation in Cubase itself seems a bit random on the default configuration out of the box with hardly any instruction/tutorials available online.
I'm not a pro tools user myself but I'm pretty sure it has this feature. Certainly it has 'VCA Spill' which involves showing/hiding various tracks on demand.

In many ways, EuCon with Cubase is actually better than on Pro Tools (e.g. custom plugin parameter mapping) but track hiding is one very obvious shortfall.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Svenne » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:06 pm

I don't see why Steinberg can't implement this obvious "feature". Of cause the controller channel layout should follow the MixConsol visibility layout! Why, on earth, would I hide a channel in the MixConsol and still have it clutter up my control surface?

It's so easy! When I open a project, Cubase sends a "channel profile" to the Eucon surface. When I add a channel in the project, Cubase updates the "profile". When I delete a channel in the project, Cubase updates the "profile". So, why can't Cubase simply update the "profile", when a channel is made hidden/visible?

Nektar has got it right, in their Cubase integration software. Hide a channel in the MicConsol and it goes away from the Panorama controller. Make it visible in the MixConsol and it returns to the Panorama.
Guillermo wrote:Tending to customer feedback is and always will be one of our top priorities.
Is it? Why, then, have Steinbergs ignored all complaints about this for years?

Come on Steinberg. I dare you. If a "small" developer like Nektar can get it right, why can't you?
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:37 am

Svenne wrote:I don't see why Steinberg can't implement this obvious "feature". Of cause the controller channel layout should follow the MixConsol visibility layout! Why, on earth, would I hide a channel in the MixConsol and still have it clutter up my control surface?

It's so easy! When I open a project, Cubase sends a "channel profile" to the Eucon surface. When I add a channel in the project, Cubase updates the "profile". When I delete a channel in the project, Cubase updates the "profile". So, why can't Cubase simply update the "profile", when a channel is made hidden/visible?

Nektar has got it right, in their Cubase integration software. Hide a channel in the MicConsol and it goes away from the Panorama controller. Make it visible in the MixConsol and it returns to the Panorama.
Guillermo wrote:Tending to customer feedback is and always will be one of our top priorities.
Is it? Why, then, have Steinbergs ignored all complaints about this for years?

Come on Steinberg. I dare you. If a "small" developer like Nektar can get it right, why can't you?
I agree with you but to be fair, it's not quite the same situation as with Nektar because EuCon is a protocol that is owned and developed by a 3rd party (Avid).

Still, I would at the very least like to have some updated communication about this since Guillermo posted in 2014 making it sound like it was likely to happen:
Guillermo wrote:We have already implemented the "Mixer mirror" feature/option but cannot be delivered on the current EuCon(version 2) adapter.
We are waiting for the delivery of the next EuCon(version 3) adapter. As soon as we support EuCon 3, this
functionality (mixer mirror/track visibilty) will be available & usable.
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Svenne » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:12 pm

Yes, Avid owns Eucon these days, but wasn't it originally developed jointly by Euphonics and Steinberg? I believe I've read that somewhere.
Guillermo wrote:We have already implemented the "Mixer mirror" feature/option but cannot be delivered on the current EuCon(version 2) adapter.
We are waiting for the delivery of the next EuCon(version 3) adapter. As soon as we support EuCon 3, this
functionality (mixer mirror/track visibility) will be available & usable.
Since EuCon 3 has been available for quite a while now (the EuControl installer is dated October 30, 2015) and Ed Doll's posting ( viewtopic.php?f=226&t=87102#p488470 ) is dated October 22, 2015. If Cubase 8.0.20 supports Eucon 3, I assume Cubase 8.5 does aswell!

Perhaps Guillermo can be so kind as clarify what "As soon as" means in Steinberg parlour. i.e. when will we have this functionality (mixer mirror/track visibility)?
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:52 pm

Svenne wrote:Yes, Avid owns Eucon these days, but wasn't it originally developed jointly by Euphonics and Steinberg? I believe I've read that somewhere.
Yes, I believe that's correct. That's probably why in many areas, EuCon is so well integrated with Cubase. Just the track viability that really lets it down.
Svenne wrote:Perhaps Guillermo can be so kind as clarify what "As soon as" means in Steinberg parlour. i.e. when will we have this functionality (mixer mirror/track visibility)?
Agreed!
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by Svenne » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:53 am

Cubase 8.5.20 released and installed. Still no mixer mirror/track visibility synchronisation functionality! :(

What's the hold-up Steinberg. If it's true, what Guillermo said, that you've had this lying around for over 6 months. Why are you withholding this important functionality from your users?
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:36 pm

Svenne wrote:Cubase 8.5.20 released and installed. Still no mixer mirror/track visibility synchronisation functionality! :(

What's the hold-up Steinberg. If it's true, what Guillermo said, that you've had this lying around for over 6 months. Why are you withholding this important functionality from your users?
Actually it's closer to two years since Guillermo said they had a working implementation of the 'mixer mirror' feature.

Come in Steinberg.... give us an update please! :)
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:35 am

Steinberg?

Guillermo?

Anyone?

:)
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon? HELP Steinberg!

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:23 pm

Is there anybody theeeeeeeeere?
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esencia
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Re: Hiding tracks with EuCon? HELP Steinberg!

Post by esencia » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:27 am

+1
It´s a high demanded feature!
@steinberg... Could you give us some response about your plans related to this feature? (just to manage our expectations)
thanks

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