Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by skillet » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:51 pm

Fingers crossed a fix is just around the corner.
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stefanie » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:15 pm

C8 still the same problem :( ... it's very very confusing thinking in flats and see sharps! ...one day we will be happy to see flats in the key Editor....I hope very soon

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by william98 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:54 pm

I posted about this in cubase 8 issues, got shunted to the ghetto, I think. It's so unmusical not to be able to define a note as what it should look like in a certain context. So, nope, not fixed. But a good suggestion. The first time i saw D# in an Ab major section ... well ...
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by GargoyleStudio » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:08 pm

+1 and more please Steinberg! It makes no musical sense as it is now.

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Garehead » Thu May 14, 2015 4:34 pm

YES +1 !! Why can't you set the key of the project globally?
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stephen57 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:18 pm

+1

It's essential to have Flat Keys and Flat notes displayed as Flats rather than Sharps.

I hunted and hunted through the Operations Manual and the forums hoping to find there was one little setting I'd so far missed to simply flip the notes from Sharps to Flats. I much prefer working in Flat Keys.

(Thanks for the excellent suggestion about using the note color tools to make things clearer.)
Last edited by Stephen57 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by -steve- » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:48 pm

My mind's view looking at an 'Eb' major scale in the Key Editor. ;)
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stephen57 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:59 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:My mind's view looking at an 'Eb' major scale in the Key Editor. ;)
Image
ROTFL :-) :lol:
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stephen57 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:14 pm

[quote="djaychela"]Holy Thread Resurrection, Batman!

[...] someone who's just getting their head around key signatures and some basic theory, and you then have to tell them that despite you saying that there are flat keys they all get displayed as sharps in Cubase.

The Flat Keys are my old friends and It just makes my head hurt to have do enharmonic transposing all the time. C7 is C, E, G, Bb, not A# and so on and on. I have an emotional, creative link to Keys, as I'm sure many of us do, and so not having "my friends" the Flat Keys around feels like something's missing -- :cry:

I love the Chord Assistant and the many harmonic features in Cubase, but I work a lot in Flat Keys and hope there will be some adjustment to allow for this soon.
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by raino » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:47 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:My mind's view looking at an 'Eb' major scale in the Key Editor. ;)
Image
Perfect!

What I find baffling is if they have the capability to do it correctly in the Score Editor why can't they just use it in the Key Editor :?: :roll: :?:
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by -steve- » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:51 pm

I'm sure if it were that simple they would.
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stephen57 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:59 am

FWIW, I'd be able to adapt to any symbolic convention to make Flat Keys work if the program engineering sides needed it (or whatever). Rather than using "b" for Flat, iI think nearly any reasonable character would work to represent Flat-Named Notes. Access to Flat Keys/Notes in Chords and Scales is essential and would make the product (Cubase Pro 8) more professional and much easier to work with. i hope Flat Keys/Notes get worked into Cubase. "Home Run" for the company if they can make Flat Keys/Notes happen "this season."

One good thing about this thread, I'm now F double-sharp sure it's not just me missing a setting to see the Flats.
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by tomtompro » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:53 am

I find it annoying that a product like Cubase cannot display flats in the Midi Key Editor. You guys should really fix that. What would it take to make this a priority. It's called "Bb" and not A#. "Everyone knows that."

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by SoundsLikeJoe » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:59 pm

BUMP and +1000

This is a simple fix. If the "Note Name" option can handle Solfege and the "Naming Format" can handle "Hemholtz" then a check box to favor flats should be easy. They could even fit A#/Bb in the "Event Display" without a preference and it would end this maddening oversight.

This... when programmers code music without thinking much about music theory. ARRRGH!

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by SoundsLikeJoe » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:02 pm

Seriously... I'm editing a piece in Ab Minor with complex harmonies... Literally every note looks wrong in the Cubase display. Today... this is killing me.

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by -steve- » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:03 pm

You are so right.

It's not gonna be so simple to code, I think! I want, want want it though. Maybe something could happen in conjunction with the chord track though.

Having both A#/Bb labels makes sense to me, I would not mind the clutter, but I wonder how small the font would have to be and if I would have to buy new glasses. ;)
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by SoundsLikeJoe » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:39 pm

I would imagine that there is a Text String or an Array with the music letters A,A#,B,C,C#,etc. Then an [if, then] loop that says if MIDI Number is X then display ArrayX.

Right now, you can actually change the display to include the letter and midi number which gives you C2/48 and it uses the same font size. Compared to the depth of programming Cubase's flexible color preferences... this is a simple bit of coding.

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by raino » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:49 pm

SoundsLikeJoe wrote:I would imagine that there is a Text String or an Array with the music letters A,A#,B,C,C#,etc. Then an [if, then] loop that says if MIDI Number is X then display ArrayX.

Right now, you can actually change the display to include the letter and midi number which gives you C2/48 and it uses the same font size. Compared to the depth of programming Cubase's flexible color preferences... this is a simple bit of coding.
As a coder in a previous lifetime (long long ago), it's hard to imagine that this shouldn't be fairly straightforward to implement. Even with my rusty skills I could write this from scratch in pseudo-code in a half hour or so. You just sketched out the basic logic in a couple of sentences.

That is unless the original code was so horribly written that it can't readily be replaced. I'm starting to suspect this might be the case since: A) This has been a constant request since almost forever, and B) it is the only approach that makes any musical sense. It is such an obvious thing to do, that the only reason not to would be that ripping out the old code would break a lot of other stuff. But if that's the case, then only professional thing to do is to bite the bullet and fix the code sooner rather than later - because writing around bad code only makes things worse.
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stephen57 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:35 am

The fact that Cubase doesn't display notes in Flats nor provide Root Notes in Flat keys, especially missed in the Key Editor, is disappointing to me, a new Cubase user. A professional music creation application based on MIDI technology should display, at least, all the standard keys in sharps and flats, including all Major Keys and their Relative Minor keys. I should be able to easily modulate from, say, B Flat Major to D Major and the program would know the notes B Flat and E Flat are now naturals and F and C are now sharp and they should be displayed as such in All editors. To me this is just basic music, elementary stuff and we shouldn't even have to discuss it. It should just be patched with the next update.

With all its strengths I'm surprised to find this lack in the program. As a new Cubase user, I'm surprised to hear this is a long-standing, unresolved issue with Cubase.

I hope this isn't a code nightmare and can be corrected without too much trouble or expense. I do think correcting it would be a significant improvement to the program and not just a nicety or a cosmetic tweak..

I don't yet really understand how Cubase deals with Root Keys and transpositions yet. I'll leave those questions for another thread. But, regardless, I'm very sure that having Flat notes displayed where needed would be very helpful to me and all other musicians using Cubase. It would also give the program more professional polish.

Take care. :-)
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by raino » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:09 am

Stephen57 wrote:The fact that Cubase doesn't display notes in Flats nor provide Root Notes in Flat keys, especially missed in the Key Editor, is disappointing to me, a new Cubase user. A professional music creation application based on MIDI technology should display, at least, all the standard keys in sharps and flats, including all Major Keys and their Relative Minor keys. I should be able to easily modulate from, say, B Flat Major to D Major and the program would know the notes B Flat and E Flat are now naturals and F and C are now sharp and they should be displayed as such in All editors. To me this is just basic music, elementary stuff and we shouldn't even have to discuss it. It should just be patched with the next update.

With all its strengths I'm surprised to find this lack in the program. As a new Cubase user, I'm surprised to hear this is a long-standing, unresolved issue with Cubase.

I hope this isn't a code nightmare and can be corrected without too much trouble or expense. I do think correcting it would be a significant improvement to the program and not just a nicety or a cosmetic tweak..

I don't yet really understand how Cubase deals with Root Keys and transpositions yet. I'll leave those questions for another thread. But, regardless, I'm very sure that having Flat notes displayed where needed would be very helpful to me and all other musicians using Cubase. It would also give the program more professional polish.

Take care. :-)
While the Key Editor has this problem, the Score Editor manages sharps, flats & keys properly - which makes the situation even more curious. And the Chord Track is a mixed bag, no flat keys but sometimes it shows flat chords (and sometimes it don't, who knows why).
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by SoundsLikeJoe » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:42 pm

This is definitely a Key Editor concern....
KeyEdit_Notes.JPG
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You can see here... even this simple Bb to Eb progression looks odd.

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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stephen57 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:00 am

raino wrote:
Stephen57 wrote:The fact that Cubase doesn't display notes in Flats nor provide Root Notes in Flat keys, especially missed in the Key Editor, is disappointing to me, a new Cubase user. A professional music creation application based on MIDI technology should display, at least, all the standard keys in sharps and flats, including all Major Keys and their Relative Minor keys. I should be able to easily modulate from, say, B Flat Major to D Major and the program would know the notes B Flat and E Flat are now naturals and F and C are now sharp and they should be displayed as such in All editors. To me this is just basic music, elementary stuff and we shouldn't even have to discuss it. It should just be patched with the next update. ,,,

While the Key Editor has this problem, the Score Editor manages sharps, flats & keys properly - which makes the situation even more curious. And the Chord Track is a mixed bag, no flat keys but sometimes it shows flat chords (and sometimes it don't, who knows why).
I've not worked with the Score Editor as yet, but I did notice it has provisions for dealing with Sharps and Flats for display and printing and, yes, I've seen the Chord Editor display F#7 and Gb7 and it seems to be related to the surrounding chords. I have to get more involved with how Cubase deals with diatonic harmony and its interesting-looking set of scales and even microtuning and so on. I know there's lots of good things it will do and I look forward to getting there.

All that said, I think we all agree that we need sharps and flats in the key editor and wherever else in the program that would would apply, vari-audio, etc.

Take care. :-)
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by raino » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:59 am

Stephen57 wrote:All that said, I think we all agree that we need sharps and flats in the key editor and wherever else in the program that would would apply, vari-audio, etc.

Take care. :-)
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by Stephen57 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:36 pm

raino wrote:
Stephen57 wrote:All that said, I think we all agree that we need sharps and flats in the key editor and wherever else in the program that would would apply, vari-audio, etc.

Take care. :-)
Yes, yes, yes. Often asked for, never supplied.
I'm very surprised at this. For such a mature product with so many years in development, you'd think this would have been dealt with ages ago. That said, I still have a lot more to learn more about how Cubase handles diatonic harmony, transposition and related topics. Perhaps you'll give me some pointers about when I post on it? I need to hit the book and run some lines and tests on it. It's a part of the program I still have lots to learn about.

Maybe, after some time working with it, I'll say, "I'm glad Cubase kept it simple and didn't use Flats," but I doubt it.

Thanks for your posts, Raino, I've learned a lot from them. It's greatly appreciated.

Dear Cubase Development Team,
If we can't have Sharps and Flats both, we'd at least like to have the option of displaying Flats or Sharps, one or the other. Possible? You see, we work with Flats and Flat keys more than Sharps and Sharp keys. It's more than a little difficult to see F, G#, A# and have to think, "F Minor 11" So, to repeat, if we can't have a full circle of fifths with sharps, flats and relative minors, could we at have the option of showing Flats or Sharps? We hope so. Please take this under advisement if possible. Thank you. :-)
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Re: Ability to display both sharps & flats in key editor

Post by raino » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:15 pm

Figured this was due for a bump.
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