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Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:31 pm
by jono not bono
Yes. I absolutely couldn't agree more. Its fine if you have, say, 4 Audio channels showing in the mixconsole haha but when is that likely if you use Cubase?!

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:01 pm
by barryfell
I personally have no issue with the hovering function, and appreciate that it keeps the mixer far cleaner than it would be otherwise. The bar gives me a rough idea of the likes of input gain and filter settings without hovering over anything, as do the knob positions on the channel strip. If I need the know the exact value of something I find no issue just mousing over it. It's not like a real mixer shows you the exact value. Likewise it just shows the physical position of the knob.

PT doesn't show any input gain and filter settings on it's mixer as far as I remember. It doesn't even have channel filter control does it? (Without a plugin) It's certainly not got EQ curves on the mixer, which I find very useful.

I far prefer Cubase's mixer and its modular and scalable functionality. PT's is very rigid with less functionality in comparison. (Although I do like that you can colour the entire channel in PT)

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:52 pm
by Rumdrum
Nope. keep it as it is.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:24 am
by claesbjo
I like how it works now, but since many people seems to hate it maybe the hovering could be subject tp a preference setting?

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:46 am
by Piirka
I "hate" it, and don't use it because of the the mixer.

Sorry, back on Cubase 6.5 and Nuendo 5.5 (and some other software ;) )

The hovering business were irritating me so bad that i actually got a "lump" in my stomach every time I open it.
Took all the fun out of Cubase in my case, so I had to stop using it. I just couldn't show that face to my clients and customers.

Yes, For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mixer.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:34 am
by Jeff Hayat
claesbjo wrote:I like how it works now, but since many people seems to hate it maybe the hovering could be subject tp a preference setting?
If anything, it would have to be a pref. Can you imagine the threads on this forum if this feature was permanently disabled? Yikes.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm
by buzzlegs
+1000 !!

Anybody who likes/prefers the hovering thing clearly isn't a PRO who needs to mix quickly with hundreds tracks everyday, the hovering thing is so time consuming it's ridicous.

Why on earth would anybody choose to see less info!??... that's just barmy IMO, it's like saying a proper hardware mixing desk is cluttered because there's too many knobs!;)

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:47 pm
by barryfell
buzzlegs wrote:+1000 !!

Anybody who likes/prefers the hovering thing clearly isn't a PRO who needs to mix quickly with hundreds tracks everyday, the hovering thing is so time consuming it's ridicous.

Why on earth would anybody choose to see less info!??... that's just barmy IMO, it's like saying a proper hardware mixing desk is cluttered because there's too many knobs!;)
Actually the MixConsole is more like a hardware mixing desk in that it doesn't show the exact values on every knob.

I personally don't need or want to see every single value at all times. That's largely unnecessary information and would be very cluttered IMO.

If you want to see such a mass of information at once so be it, but it's lame to say it's not "pro" to not. Just accept others are different from you in their UI preferences.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:04 pm
by buzzlegs
barryfell wrote:
buzzlegs wrote:+1000 !!

Anybody who likes/prefers the hovering thing clearly isn't a PRO who needs to mix quickly with hundreds tracks everyday, the hovering thing is so time consuming it's ridicous.

Why on earth would anybody choose to see less info!??... that's just barmy IMO, it's like saying a proper hardware mixing desk is cluttered because there's too many knobs!;)
If you want to see such a mass of information at once so be it, but it's lame to say it's not "pro" to not. Just accept others are different from you in their UI preferences.

Actaully it's not the mass of info that's not Pro, maybe my language was wrong, but it's the silly hovering thing to see the buttons in the mixer/inspector that's completely uncalled for and slows down everything, when you need to mix loads of records a day this hovering thing is totally un-necassary and does slow you down, it's infuriating tbh.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:28 pm
by barryfell
buzzlegs wrote:
barryfell wrote:
buzzlegs wrote:+1000 !!

Anybody who likes/prefers the hovering thing clearly isn't a PRO who needs to mix quickly with hundreds tracks everyday, the hovering thing is so time consuming it's ridicous.

Why on earth would anybody choose to see less info!??... that's just barmy IMO, it's like saying a proper hardware mixing desk is cluttered because there's too many knobs!;)
If you want to see such a mass of information at once so be it, but it's lame to say it's not "pro" to not. Just accept others are different from you in their UI preferences.

Actaully it's not the mass of info that's not Pro, maybe my language was wrong, but it's the silly hovering thing to see the buttons in the mixer/inspector that's completely uncalled for and slows down everything, when you need to mix loads of records a day this hovering thing is totally un-necassary and does slow you down, it's infuriating tbh.
It's not uncalled for as it keeps the mixer clean. I don't see how there is space for a button, a parameter name, a value and a parameter selector. That's 4 things to fit in one tiny space, so I totally understand why they made it so you just see the name normally and the value and buttons when hovering. It makes good UI sense to me.

The 0.1s delay in the buttons appearing really isn't a big issue for me, and I feel that time may be incurred if there were 4 elements for each slot rather than 1 anyway.

I can't see how they could change it to show everything certain people want. I'm yet to see anyone actually suggest a workable alternative.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:36 pm
by buzzlegs
barryfell wrote:
It's not uncalled for as it keeps the mixer clean. I don't see how there is space for a button, a parameter name, a value and a parameter selector. That's 4 things to fit in one tiny space, so I totally understand why they made it so you just see the name normally and the value and buttons when hovering. It makes good UI sense to me.

The 0.1s delay in the buttons appearing really isn't a big issue for me, and I feel that time may be incurred if there were 4 elements for each slot rather than 1 anyway.

I can't see how they could change it to show everything certain people want. I'm yet to see anyone actually suggest a workable alternative.


You've obviously not used Cubase 6 then?... loads of room when designed properly!

'0.1s delay in the buttons appearing really isn't a big issue for me'... good for you, when you have to do this literally hundreds of times a day it soon gets annoying as hell and very laborious, how many hours a day do you use Cubase?

One of many problems with the hovering is constantly hitting the wrong place, Steinberg actaully do this in their own tutorial videos for peats sake!!!... it's a design flaw plain and simple. I've been in dozens and dozens of pro studios that use Cubase and every single one of them has problems with the hovering, it's just too fiddly and slow.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:45 pm
by barryfell
buzzlegs wrote:
barryfell wrote:
It's not uncalled for as it keeps the mixer clean. I don't see how there is space for a button, a parameter name, a value and a parameter selector. That's 4 things to fit in one tiny space, so I totally understand why they made it so you just see the name normally and the value and buttons when hovering. It makes good UI sense to me.

The 0.1s delay in the buttons appearing really isn't a big issue for me, and I feel that time may be incurred if there were 4 elements for each slot rather than 1 anyway.

I can't see how they could change it to show everything certain people want. I'm yet to see anyone actually suggest a workable alternative.
You've obviously not used Cubase 6 then?... loads of room when designed properly!
The Cubase 6 mixer and earlier incarnations looked like a busy mess IMO. I hated them. Such an ugly UI. I stopped using Cubase many years ago when I got sick of how ugly it was. I've just moved back in v8, but would have been happy with v7 as I really liked how the mixer has been updated.
'0.1s delay in the buttons appearing really isn't a big issue for me'... good for you, when you have to do this literally hundreds of times a day it soon gets annoying as hell and very laborious, how many hours a day do you use Cubase?
How many hours a day I use it is irrelevant. As I say, an excess of information would likely induce a similar tiny delay IMO.

I appreciate it annoys you, but don't assume it's annoying/slowing down everyone else.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:00 pm
by silhouette
barryfell wrote:
buzzlegs wrote:
barryfell wrote:
It's not uncalled for as it keeps the mixer clean. I don't see how there is space for a button, a parameter name, a value and a parameter selector. That's 4 things to fit in one tiny space, so I totally understand why they made it so you just see the name normally and the value and buttons when hovering. It makes good UI sense to me.

The 0.1s delay in the buttons appearing really isn't a big issue for me, and I feel that time may be incurred if there were 4 elements for each slot rather than 1 anyway.

I can't see how they could change it to show everything certain people want. I'm yet to see anyone actually suggest a workable alternative.
You've obviously not used Cubase 6 then?... loads of room when designed properly!
The Cubase 6 mixer and earlier incarnations looked like a busy mess IMO. I hated them. Such an ugly UI. I stopped using Cubase many years ago when I got sick of how ugly it was. I've just moved back in v8, but would have been happy with v7 as I really liked how the mixer has been updated.
'0.1s delay in the buttons appearing really isn't a big issue for me'... good for you, when you have to do this literally hundreds of times a day it soon gets annoying as hell and very laborious, how many hours a day do you use Cubase?
How many hours a day I use it is irrelevant. As I say, an excess of information would likely induce a similar tiny delay IMO.

I appreciate it annoys you, but don't assume it's annoying/slowing down everyone else.
Perhaps there should be a preference available to keep the buttons visible or hidden. Seems like a sensible solution and probably less stressful and leading to fewer arguments. Although I guess most of us would leave them hidden except during mix-down - and yes I use Cubase a lot.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:02 pm
by Rumdrum
silhouette wrote:
The Cubase 6 mixer and earlier incarnations looked like a busy mess IMO. I hated them. Such an ugly UI. I stopped using Cubase many years ago when I got sick of how ugly it was. I've just moved back in v8, but would have been happy with v7 as I really liked how the mixer has been updated.


I appreciate it annoys you, but don't assume it's annoying/slowing down everyone else.

+1

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:02 pm
by peakae
The hovering or "mouse over" thing is just silly. Simply color code right and left edge and done. There is a reason no one uses the "mouse over" on websites anymore, people got annoyed really fast.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:05 pm
by Rumdrum
peakae wrote:The hovering or "mouse over" thing is just silly. Simply color code right and left edge and done. There is a reason no one uses the "mouse over" on websites anymore, people got annoyed really fast.

"People" does not include me. Don't generalize.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:13 pm
by buzzlegs
barryfell wrote:
The Cubase 6 mixer and earlier incarnations looked like a busy mess IMO. I hated them. Such an ugly UI. I stopped using Cubase many years ago when I got sick of how ugly it was. I've just moved back in v8, but would have been happy with v7 as I really liked how the mixer has been updated.

How many hours a day I use it is irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant, it's the MOST important issue if you're a PRO. (it's called Cubase PRO!)

If you didn't like the design of Cubase 6 that's fine, if you like your software to sacrifice speed and useability for prettiness, that's cool, but it's design is much faster to use/mix on and that's a proveable fact.

The clue is in the software title... PRO!, and simply put, the hover thing is not PRO, it's childish and amatuer-ish design and slows down the process of mixing a track, try mixing a bunch of records in a day with very strick deadlines and you'll soon know the importantance of SPEED and USABILITY.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:20 pm
by barryfell
peakae wrote:The hovering or "mouse over" thing is just silly. Simply color code right and left edge and done. There is a reason no one uses the "mouse over" on websites anymore, people got annoyed really fast.
So make the bar 3 clickable areas rather than 1?

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:26 pm
by barryfell
buzzlegs wrote:
barryfell wrote:
The Cubase 6 mixer and earlier incarnations looked like a busy mess IMO. I hated them. Such an ugly UI. I stopped using Cubase many years ago when I got sick of how ugly it was. I've just moved back in v8, but would have been happy with v7 as I really liked how the mixer has been updated.

How many hours a day I use it is irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant, it's the MOST important issue if you're a PRO. (it's called Cubase PRO!)
No it's an issue you have. You don't represent everyone, and certainly not all "pro's".
If you didn't like the design of Cubase 6 that's fine, if you like your software to sacrifice speed and useability for prettiness, that's cool, but it's design is much faster to use/mix on and that's a proveable fact.
Well that's a strawman as i've already said, I don't believe it is any slower. I'd love to hear how you are substantiating your 'provable fact'.
The clue is in the software title... PRO!, and simply put, the hover thing is not PRO, it's childish and amatuer-ish design and slows down the process of mixing a track, try mixing a bunch of records in a day with very strick deadlines and you'll soon know the importantance of SPEED and USABILITY.
I find the C8 mixer faster and more usable than the PT one in many aspects, so take from that what you will.

As I say, don't confuse your own use with everyone's.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:34 pm
by Puma0382
buzzlegs wrote: You've obviously not used Cubase 6 then?... loads of room when designed properly!
I have to ask - were you around on the old forums, at v6.0/6.5..?

Then you will remember like me, all the dozens upon dozens of posts whinging and complaining about the (f)ugly and old mixer in Cubase:-
- "Steinberg, when are we getting a redesigned mixer - its 2010 for god's sake..! I want to see Inserts and Sends at the same time"

- "Come on SB, get with the program.! This mixer is way past its sell-by date; ugly, complicated, ergonomically backward, not scaleable. Look at Studio One, or Reaper, or even Reason with their new 'SSL' type console...".

- "I'm telling you, if this doesn't get updated soon, I'm seriously thinking about switching my main DAW".

- "This mixer is OLD Steinberg - we need a better design mixer like NOW..!!"

etc, etc, etc... and on and on it went...

Whats Steinberg to do..?

So, to now.

I, as a couple of others here have said, like the new clean look too. I work on albums (mostly audio) with track counts averaging 70+ As soon as I started 'migrating' to the new v7.0 edition, I admit it did take til v7.5 before I found I was good/comfortable enough (and things were working well enough..!) that I could stop my occasional trips back to v6.5. And, I haven't since.

Having said all that, I'll go with any improvements/solutions from SB, to the 'hovering' access to controls that you and others are continually frustrated and annoyed by - as long as we don't go back to the 'clutter-fest' that was previous to C7

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:42 pm
by buzzlegs
barryfell wrote:
No it's an issue you have. You don't represent everyone, and certainly not all "pro's".

Well that's a strawman as i've already said, I don't believe it is any slower. I'd love to hear how you are substantiating your 'provable fact'.
The clue is in the software title... PRO!, and simply put, the hover thing is not PRO, it's childish and amatuer-ish design and slows down the process of mixing a track, try mixing a bunch of records in a day with very strick deadlines and you'll soon know the importantance of SPEED and USABILITY.
I find the C8 mixer faster and more usable than the PT one in many aspects, so take from that what you will.

As I say, don't confuse your own use with everyone's.
How many Pro's do you know?... i mean people who use Cubase every single day for at least 8 hours a day, and get paid for it.

The 'provable' fact is mixing a record in Cubase 6 compared to 8, try it and you'll be amazed at how much faster 6 is when you actaully have real buttons to press instead of aimlessly hovering around trying to make buttons appear!... It's also provable as i've been in a lot of pro studios and spent time with countless professionals who do this all day everyday and every single one of them say the same thing, the hover thing slows you down, it's fiddly and time consuming when you have to do it all day everyday.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:44 pm
by Jeff Hayat
buzzlegs wrote: Anybody who likes/prefers the hovering thing clearly isn't a PRO
I like/prefer the hovering thing. and I am a PRO. Which means that you clearly need to get your facts straight.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:46 pm
by buzzlegs
Jeff Hayat wrote:
buzzlegs wrote: Anybody who likes/prefers the hovering thing clearly isn't a PRO
I like/prefer the hovering thing. and I am a PRO. Which means that you clearly need to get your facts straight.
Honest question... why on earth would you prefer something that's slower than real buttons, doesn't make any sense.

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:49 pm
by buzzlegs
Puma0382 wrote:
buzzlegs wrote: You've obviously not used Cubase 6 then?... loads of room when designed properly!
I have to ask - were you around on the old forums, at v6.0/6.5..?

Then you will remember like me, all the dozens upon dozens of posts whinging and complaining about the (f)ugly and old mixer in Cubase:-
- "Steinberg, when are we getting a redesigned mixer - its 2010 for god's sake..! I want to see Inserts and Sends at the same time"

- "Come on SB, get with the program.! This mixer is way past its sell-by date; ugly, complicated, ergonomically backward, not scaleable. Look at Studio One, or Reaper, or even Reason with their new 'SSL' type console...".

- "I'm telling you, if this doesn't get updated soon, I'm seriously thinking about switching my main DAW".

- "This mixer is OLD Steinberg - we need a better design mixer like NOW..!!"

etc, etc, etc... and on and on it went...

Whats Steinberg to do..?

So, to now.

I, as a couple of others here have said, like the new clean look too. I work on albums (mostly audio) with track counts averaging 70+ As soon as I started 'migrating' to the new v7.0 edition, I admit it did take til v7.5 before I found I was good/comfortable enough (and things were working well enough..!) that I could stop my occasional trips back to v6.5. And, I haven't since.

Having said all that, I'll go with any improvements/solutions from SB, to the 'hovering' access to controls that you and others are continually frustrated and annoyed by - as long as we don't go back to the 'clutter-fest' that was previous to C7

I agree that 6's mixer needed improving!.. that's not the issue, the issue is the hovering around for buttons to appear, fix the hover button issue and all will be good in Cubase land again!;)

Re: For the love of God, PLEASE eliminate hovering in the mi

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:53 pm
by barryfell
buzzlegs wrote:
barryfell wrote:
No it's an issue you have. You don't represent everyone, and certainly not all "pro's".

Well that's a strawman as i've already said, I don't believe it is any slower. I'd love to hear how you are substantiating your 'provable fact'.
The clue is in the software title... PRO!, and simply put, the hover thing is not PRO, it's childish and amatuer-ish design and slows down the process of mixing a track, try mixing a bunch of records in a day with very strick deadlines and you'll soon know the importantance of SPEED and USABILITY.
I find the C8 mixer faster and more usable than the PT one in many aspects, so take from that what you will.

As I say, don't confuse your own use with everyone's.
How many Pro's do you know?... i mean people who use Cubase every single day for at least 8 hours a day, and get paid for it.
A few, who i've never heard complain about the mixer. You would provide a stronger argument by referring to the "pro's" in threads like this so you can provide a substantiated basis for your claims. However, what can be observed from them is in fact a range of opinions on it, so since that doesn't appear to suit your agenda I guess that's why you are turning to personal anecdotes.
The 'provable' fact is mixing a record in Cubase 6 compared to 8, try it and you'll be amazed at how much faster 6 is when you actaully have real buttons to press instead of aimlessly hovering around trying to make buttons appear!... It's also provable as i've been in a lot of pro studios and spent time with countless professionals who do this all day everyday and every single one of them say the same thing, the hover thing slows you down, it's fiddly and time consuming when you have to do it all day everyday.
You're anecdotal stories mean little when coming from a position as clearly biased as you seem to be. As I say, there is a range of opinion from members on this forum, many of them who use it every day, so i'll refer to that substantiated fact rather than your unsubstantiated claims of "proof" that it's slower.