Add Rhythm To Chord Track

All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of Cubase Pro 8, Cubase Artist 8 and Cubase Elements 8 can be posted here.
Locked
User avatar
Minimalist
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:49 pm
Contact:

Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Minimalist »

The way I see this working, you could have preset rhythms in the chord track or drag a midi part to it and it would use that rhythm. Not for everyone but the Chord track is not for everyone and it would be an optional component of it.

The question is, if Cubase can make Chords for me, why not make rhythms for me too? Alternatively there could be a Rhythm track as a new type of track similar to the Chord track.


Or now that I think about it, this could be part of the Quantize section. Instead of Quantize to one value, it would Quantize everything to a pattern, either preset or user made.

User avatar
mroekalea
Senior Member
Posts: 1378
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by mroekalea »

Good idea, I already asked if it was possible, and you can trigger parts, but I didn't manage to get it working and gave it up.
Menoj

If nothing goes right, go left!


Win10, 3930K@3.2Ghz, 32GB, 2 x DELL u2713hm monitors (5120 x 1440), monitoring: ADAM P22A with SUB8, Audient ID14 & Behringer XR18 & Focusrite safire pro 26IO, Cubase 9.5 pro & artist 8.5, wavelab 9.5 elements, HSO, RND Portico 5033, CC121, Cubase IC pro, Halion 6, GA4, VG2, Arturia Analog Lab, TRacks CS grand + all custom elements, BFD3, Amplitube 3&4 (fender, orange, SVX collections, slash), Z3TA+2, HSO library, many Waves plugs, Plugin Alliance plugins (BX, SPL, Maag & Elysia), NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, AIR instrument expansion pack v3, Melodyne Studio v4, Soundtoys 5, Lexicon native PCM reverb bundle, UJAM Virtual Guitarist complete bundle, SoniVox Premium collection, Ezkeys upright & Vintage Fender Jazz basses, Fender Bassman 100, Markbass TTE500 , FMC Neo 2128 cab

User avatar
Minimalist
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Minimalist »

I had a similar request for velocity presets.

Quinn3k3
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:45 am
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Quinn3k3 »

+1

The Chord Pad module has so many possibilities like:

Adding a programmable arp w/ user presets (the chords from the pads would feed notes to the arp or you could turn the chords off and use the arp by itself). I realize this can be with a separate arp, but why not combine the features for the sake of better workflow.

Adding a programmable strum/chord pattern (original post) and strum/chord roll speed w/ user presets

Assigning midi phrases to a pad (allow a different phrase on each pad or transpose one pattern across all of the pads) w/ user presets. Allow drag and drop of phrases from the arranger window. Essentially making this a midi phrase sampler. I realize we have the ability to assign a midi phrase in the player section, but sometimes it would better to create something new than to search for something that fits the project.

Allow for more complex/two hand chords in the Chord Assistant

Allow the Chord Pad section to expanded in size to see these new performance features with the option to hide them instead of the current layout that you have to click into different tabs. Similar to how you can show/hide features in the other windows. I don't like switching between back and forth between the chord and player view and the chord pad preset should be visible at all times. These items would not take up much screen real estate and would make the workflow much better.

User avatar
Minimalist
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Minimalist »

I know, BIAB is fun. Maybe something like that with midi instead of audio. I have been using Apache SX for phrases but it has a huge limitation that it removes the velocities when you import phrases. That kinda sucks the life out of phrases.

User avatar
Starsprinkler
Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Starsprinkler »

I see no bigger point in just adding "a rhythm", and it would absolutely not be useful in the Chord track itself, because generally every track, with different instruments attached, has different rhythm (while the Chord track is for all tracks).

But what I WOULD like to see is a separate VSTi that works like Catanya, i.e. a "Chord Pattern Arpeggiator". It works like this:

It takes an incoming chord (3 notes) and then make that chord come alive by making it into an arpeggiator pattern using the chord notes, from a preset pattern. In addition to the current octave, also the chord notes 1 octave up and 1 octave down can be used, totally using 9 chord notes in a preset arpeggiator pattern. (If developed by Steinberg, maybe also 4 note chords should be possible). You can also set different velocities in the preset patterns, giving different grooves.

So this means every track could be routed to a different preset pattern, and the incoming chord notes could not only have different rhythm for the chords added, but these chords could also be made into arpeggiator patterns, playing broken chords and whatever you want using the chord notes. The output is routed to separate tracks and can be recorded, and then treated further.

See here for a demo of how this works:
http://www.7aliens.com/catanya-arpeggiator

This fits very nicely with the new Chord paradigm of Cubase, and is a logic and natural continuation of this. A very creative and useful tool. Of course, you could just buy Catanya to have this functionality :)
But it is so useful so it could be good for Steinberg to have such a tool developed in-house and have full control of it, and maybe build upon it further (*).

(*) Edit: several ideas to be found in my following post, e.g. automation of pattern changes.
Last edited by Starsprinkler on Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

Quinn3k3
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:45 am
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Quinn3k3 »

Hi all,

Please see my original post above......

My suggestions would be in the Chord Pad section and could be turned on and off for different instruments and would not affect the entire project. Think of these as a more programmable alternative to the player section that is already there.

Imagine the Chord Pad section turning into a performance section - chord pads with strum/roll speed, programmable arp, programmable rhythm and midi phrase sampler that each feature can be used alone or in combination with each other. Many possibilities!

By the way, for those who like the ideas in the posts above make sure to fill out the user survey under the General section of the forum.

Thanks,
Quinn
Last edited by Quinn3k3 on Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mroekalea
Senior Member
Posts: 1378
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by mroekalea »

Sounds very like virtual guitarist, just research how popular this tools is :-) Also the main reason I would like to see such a feature in simple form.
Menoj

If nothing goes right, go left!


Win10, 3930K@3.2Ghz, 32GB, 2 x DELL u2713hm monitors (5120 x 1440), monitoring: ADAM P22A with SUB8, Audient ID14 & Behringer XR18 & Focusrite safire pro 26IO, Cubase 9.5 pro & artist 8.5, wavelab 9.5 elements, HSO, RND Portico 5033, CC121, Cubase IC pro, Halion 6, GA4, VG2, Arturia Analog Lab, TRacks CS grand + all custom elements, BFD3, Amplitube 3&4 (fender, orange, SVX collections, slash), Z3TA+2, HSO library, many Waves plugs, Plugin Alliance plugins (BX, SPL, Maag & Elysia), NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, AIR instrument expansion pack v3, Melodyne Studio v4, Soundtoys 5, Lexicon native PCM reverb bundle, UJAM Virtual Guitarist complete bundle, SoniVox Premium collection, Ezkeys upright & Vintage Fender Jazz basses, Fender Bassman 100, Markbass TTE500 , FMC Neo 2128 cab

User avatar
Minimalist
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Minimalist »

All these ideas are good. I would be happy though if they just let me drop patterns in Apache SX and keep the relative velocity. Currently, it makes all notes the same velocity. That is bad.

homebrewprod
Junior Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by homebrewprod »

Or make the chord pads a midi plug in. And use arp in conjunction

Quinn3k3
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:45 am
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Quinn3k3 »

I'm not opposed to the idea of the chord pads being a midi plugin but I would still rather have all the options, I mentioned in my post above, in one window.

I personally would like to have the modules in one window so that I could make changes to the pads, arp, phrase, strum pattern, strum/roll speed & chord complexity all without leaving the window. It may sound like a lot to put into one place but with careful design and the ability to hide/show the functions it could work. With this idea the user could have sub presets for the individual modules within the window and a master preset for all of the settings combined.

I see this as a much better workflow option than loading up several different plugins and controlling them from separate windows. Of course, I understand each user has their own workflow.

homebrewprod
Junior Member
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by homebrewprod »

Try it out in ableton. Works like a dream with various plugins. In addition, there are other kinds of chord plugins than u have in Cubase today, like the one you just intervals from the root note. On top of that you can ad a force to scale notes, and you have something really cool and flexible - all within a set of midi plugs, that u can use in whatever combination and order u want. I think Cubase dilemma is that that they fail every time they try to put too much into one unit. Just look at the totally misserable Hallion. Which is the worst instrument ever made..

Quinn3k3
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:45 am
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Quinn3k3 »

I agree it could turn into a mess if not executed properly, but with the proper layout, it would still be my preference to have it in one window.

NI's Komplete Kontrol plug-in is an example of combining functionality into one space that works pretty well. Again, I realize your workflow may differ from mine so I don't expect you to agree with me.

Most of the functionality that I am speaking about is already in their individual midi plug-ins and chord pads, so most of what you are asking for is present in the current version. You have Chorder and Arpache that you can use now. If this is the workflow you prefer, use them in the manner that you are describing.

I am not suggesting Steinberg take these away or to stop improving their midi plug-ins, but I am suggesting a different option. One that users can use, if they so choose. Any module that they create for the window that I am describing should be able to be ported to a midi plug-in so, in that case, we are both happy. I see no reason it has to be all one way or the other.

User avatar
mroekalea
Senior Member
Posts: 1378
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by mroekalea »

Well if steinberg does it, their midi capabilities are then just unbeatable.
Menoj

If nothing goes right, go left!


Win10, 3930K@3.2Ghz, 32GB, 2 x DELL u2713hm monitors (5120 x 1440), monitoring: ADAM P22A with SUB8, Audient ID14 & Behringer XR18 & Focusrite safire pro 26IO, Cubase 9.5 pro & artist 8.5, wavelab 9.5 elements, HSO, RND Portico 5033, CC121, Cubase IC pro, Halion 6, GA4, VG2, Arturia Analog Lab, TRacks CS grand + all custom elements, BFD3, Amplitube 3&4 (fender, orange, SVX collections, slash), Z3TA+2, HSO library, many Waves plugs, Plugin Alliance plugins (BX, SPL, Maag & Elysia), NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, AIR instrument expansion pack v3, Melodyne Studio v4, Soundtoys 5, Lexicon native PCM reverb bundle, UJAM Virtual Guitarist complete bundle, SoniVox Premium collection, Ezkeys upright & Vintage Fender Jazz basses, Fender Bassman 100, Markbass TTE500 , FMC Neo 2128 cab

MHoughton
Member
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by MHoughton »

Starsprinkler wrote:I see no bigger point in just adding "a rhythm", and it would absolutely not be useful in the Chord track itself, because generally every track, with different instruments attached, has different rhythm (while the Chord track is for all tracks).

But what I WOULD like to see is a separate VSTi that works like Catanya, i.e. a "Chord Pattern Arpeggiator". It works like this:

It takes an incoming chord (3 notes) and then make that chord come alive by making it into an arpeggiator pattern using the chord notes, from a preset pattern. In addition to the current octave, also the chord notes 1 octave up and 1 octave down can be used, totally using 9 chord notes in a preset arpeggiator pattern. (If developed by Steinberg, maybe also 4 note chords should be possible). You can also set different velocities in the preset patterns, giving different grooves.

So this means every track could be routed to a different preset pattern, and the incoming chord notes could not only have different rhythm for the chords added, but these chords could also be made into arpeggiator patterns, playing broken chords and whatever you want using the chord notes. The output is routed to separate tracks and can be recorded, and then treated further.

See here for a demo of how this works:
http://www.7aliens.com/catanya-arpeggiator

This fits very nicely with the new Chord paradigm of Cubase, and is a logic and natural continuation of this. A very creative and useful tool. Of course, you could just buy Catanya to have this functionality :)
But it is so useful so it could be good for Steinberg to have such a tool developed in-house and have full control of it, and maybe build upon it further.
+1.

Why put a rhythm on a chord track, if I want my drums and ac guitar and bass to be playing their own rhythm to create the overall groove?

I like the Catanya idea, though it's a bit limited, and a bit fiddly to implement. Personally, I'd like to see something more along the lines of Cognitone Synfire (http://www.cognitone.com/products/mps/intro/page.stml) ...but built in to Cubase.

User avatar
Starsprinkler
Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by Starsprinkler »

MHoughton wrote: I like the Catanya idea, though it's a bit limited, and a bit fiddly to implement. Personally, I'd like to see something more along the lines of Cognitone Synfire (http://www.cognitone.com/products/mps/intro/page.stml) ...but built in to Cubase.
The good thing about the Catanya chord arpeggiator is that it's a simple idea (arpeggiator using the chord notes). That Synfire thing seems to be a massive and much more advanced product, that's out of the scope to implement in Cubase.

The Catanya product is limited to use 3-notes chords, but if Steinberg develops their own version it can be built upon further:
- Add 4 notes chords,
- Add the possibility to also add non chord notes from the current scale as well, giving the possibility to add more complex phrases and so on.
- And if you could automate the pattern changes it would be really powerful. :idea:

Now, imagine a track controlled from the Chord Track, with the output sent to such a Chord Pattern Arpeggiator (maybe even with non chord note fill-ins) for which you have your desired pattern changes automated...
What a creative tool!

And from a business perspective, they could even sell additional preset pattern packages separately for different genres and/or different instruments = more $$$ for Steinberg. :idea:

beerbong
Member
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Add Rhythm To Chord Track

Post by beerbong »

Having strum controls in the Chord track would be invaluable for me.
BB - Intel Quad/RME/Nvidia Video, RME Raydat, Win10 Home
Cubase 8.5 64 bit / Cubase 9.5 / Wavelab Elements / Halion 6 / Padshop Pro

Locked

Return to “Feature Requests and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests