is there any update regarding bug [CAN-10904] [CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down! - Cubase - Steinberg Forums
the original thread is closed
this really messed up some of my projects. a total waste of time. i think it’s unacceptable

Hi,

As far as I can see it’s still open. Related BON-8206 has been closed.

The solution is to create any initial automation point.

hi. what do you mean with any initial automation point? thanks

Hi,

Just draw an automation Node at the beginning of the VCA automation track, please.

yesterday in cubase 12.0.70 it happened again. vca has already an initial automation point. this workaround doesn’t work anymore. my mix has been ruined once again. this bug comes from version 8. this really drives me mad. come on!

It happened to me once on a fairly large project years ago. Since then I stopped using VCAs in Cubase. It’s a shame, really.

Hi,

Was the initial point at -oo by any chance?

Are you willing to share the project (just the CPR file, no WAV files) to be able to test it here on my side, please?

If I’m not mistaken, the workaround consists of writing initial automation points on the Audio tracks connected to the VCA. Automation just on the VCA won’t do, Audio tracks will still be all over the place.

Hi,

Actually I would say the initial automation point should be on the VCA channel. And the value must be other from -oo.

If you say so, Martin, I will check again and see. But in .52 the only way I found to reliably have the faders follow VCA automation was to have one initial point on each track commited to the VCA.

But maybe something has changed in the meantime. I will check again.

Hi,

No, there was no change. Then I’m probably wrong, sorry.

here is the requested cpr. for example the channel “S INTRO” was at -10 when saved, when i open the project now is at -17

setting automation nodes on the tracks (not the vca) makes no sense at all because the idea behind automating with vca is not to using volume automation on the tracks so the fader is not locked when mixing

last moment edit: i detected that the problem depends if cubase is closed. i tested the following cases:
1 cubase closed. open the project = fail
2 cubase and project opened, close and reopen = ok
3 cubase opened, open any other project, close and open the problematic project = ok

so i guess the problem is present when opening the project for the first time after opening cubase

I actually use automation nodes in my templates on almost all tracks by default, including those controlled by VCA. I do post though and I can see how some ways of working that seems inconvenient when mixing music. On the other hand there should be workarounds for that. I think that if you set your tracks to latch and punch out parameters to “start” and “end” and lock that when adjusting your controlled tracks all that should happen is that they will rewrite the one automation point when you release the fader. I think there’s another way as well.

It looks that way, but if you follow the link I posted above you will see that you can reproduce this on demand even with cubase open, at any time. All it takes is to have another blank project, switch to that, relocate the cursor to a point in time that would affect the original project, switch back to the original project, see how fader levels are out of whack.

I don’t know what the problem is. But it is a problem.

Tried using VCA’s early on in my Cubase journey. Quickly realized it was a useless death trap of a feature.

I certainly hope they get ironed out!

Hi,

This sounds different from the known VCA issue.

the real thing is that VCA has been messed up for years and it’s totally unreliable. five major versions has been released without a fix. shame. i’ll start using other methods for automation

Alright. Interesting. I found this post from @Fredo from about 6 years ago, that explains that this is somewhat expected behaviour. And it seems to cover both VCA cases, both -inf levels and the obvious differences when swapping between projects and simply relocating the cursor.

So… we just go with the big letters in the end I guess.

However, and that’s a small but important detail, the above statement is not always true. Cursor position prior to reopening (or activating) a project affects which value those non-automated faders will remember.

And here’s the easy reproduction.

Setup two projects

Project A

1. Create 4 Audio Tracks Connected to a Single VCA Fader, all faders at unity gain.
2. Create automation points on the VCA track as follows.
   Bar 0: 0.0
   Bar 1: +1.0
   Bar 2: +2.0
   Bar 3: +3.0
   Bar 4: +4.0
   Bar 5: +5.0
   Bar 6: +6.0
3. Set the playback cursor to bar 0. Don’t close the project. Create a new project:

Project B

A completely blank project

perform this Repro sequence:

1. Activate project B. Place the playback cursor at bar 3.
2. Go to project A and activate it. Open the mixconsole.
3. Observe if the VCA fader is at unity gain, but the audio faders are positioned at -3dB.

Edit: To make an effort to explain this behaviour. Caution! Pure speculation!

This result would only make sense (for me) if:

• When project A is activated again, audio faders remember that they were at 0 last time the project was active (before activating project B).
• When project A is activated, the VCA track reads the automation value at position 3.1.1.0 (last cursor position from project B just before project A was reactivated).
• At this point, the project cursor position for project A is remembered. The cursor goes back to 0.1.1.0, VCA fader follows, going to 0 from +3, and drags the audio faders down with it, to -3dB.
• So in the end, we have a situation where even though we started with 4 faders at 0 and a VCA at 0 to control them via automation on its own track, we end up with a position for the audio track’s faders different than that of the VCA, which is completely unexpected.

By the way, I tried this repro today with 12.0.60 and I ended up with just one [1] fader out of the three audio tracks that I initially created affected. So… I don’t know.