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Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:15 am
by joedaddario
I have been reading the forum for the last two nights. I can find no solution to the following problem:

When I drag a part in the main C8.5 window, there is a delay between the new "dragged to" position and the actual part catching up to the new position. Also the part actually swings or "rubber-bands" as it is dragged side to side in the main window.

Here's what I know for sure. This never occurred in C7.5. Though I downloaded and installed C8, I never opened it. Instead, I downloaded C8.5 and went directly to C8.5 for starting my new project.

As far as I can tell, the only real graphic-related difference between C7.5 and C8.5 is that I needed to engage AERO on Win7 to run C8.5. As a trouble-shooting measure, I used C7.5 with AERO and found it is still working well (no drag-lag).

Is there some setting in Preferences or Project Setup that I need to change to get C8.5 to perform without the graphic lagging when I drag parts?

One last thing - I am generally an understanding individual, however I did not appreciate Steinberg erasing my previous post on this issue a few days ago, because it didn't meet the criteria for posting in the Issue Reports forum. The least Steinberg could have done is move my original post to this Misc forum. You kinda *quiz* off a customer that has been with you since the early 80's - not very smart...but take solace in knowing I haven't walked away in silence.

Any help is appreciated fellow users,
Joey Daddario

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:12 pm
by lukasbrooklyn
indeed, seems to be the case of some questionable programming in cubase 8 & onwards; see my previous post here: http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 411aea52ae

since it's been proven to be platform-independent (and also GPU-independent, as i tried switching graphics interfaces), it's fairly safe to say the ball is in SB's court to address this. let's bump this thread in two years or so.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:17 pm
by joedaddario
Thanks for the reply Lucas. So...are you going to go back to C7.5? To me this issue is a show-stopper. The only problem with going back to C7.5 is the crashing upon exit which occurs about 50% of the time. Also I hate to think I've now paid for 2 upgrades (C8 & C8.5) that are un-useable. Again, thanks for your response.
Joey

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:52 pm
by adunion
Hey Joey,

You are having the exact same problem as me and lots of other frustrated Windows users have had since C8 was released. I agree it is a showstopper. I've been in touch with Fabio B (who is a very nice and helpful person) at Steinberg over this. If I understand it correctly they seem to be working hard on it at the moment - although they seem to be having a surprisingly hard time pinpointing the issue.

For me the problem became even worse when I updated to 8.0.30 or 8.0.35, so I'm still at 8.0.20. Did you try the latest updates at all?

You might have seen my posts in the thread Lucas is pointing to, but just to conclude, here are two videos that I made to show what's going on over here:

Cubase 8.0.20 compared to Cubase 6.5.5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OIjk9dUncI

Cubase 8.0.35:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5-hWbbUT7w

Cheers! /Robert

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:47 pm
by peakae
Not everyone is affected by the moving part stutter, I am not.
But the scissor tool stutter, is really bad on my system.
Obviously the new window/GUI handling has been rewritten and still needs some work.
At least it is being worked on, I'm sure it's a high priority.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:25 am
by joedaddario
Hey Robert,
Thanks for the response. That IS interesting about the issue being less of a problem on C8.0.20 than on the later updates. To answer your question, "no, I haven't updated C8 because I basically skipped it in favor of C8.5". Both are loaded, however, on my machine. You've given me good reason to fire up C8 and check out the C8.0.20 release.

Wow I just took a look at your videos. I could live with the C.8.0.20 lag. And I could definitely see the how much worse it got on your .35 video. But oh man that is nothing compared to how big the problem is for me on C8.5. It's like a bungee jump. Lot's of delay between the initial move and the part's catching up, and lots of overshoot when I've stopped the move. OMgosh. I really appreciate the reply and knowledge. Like peakae said in their reply, I'm sure Steinberg is on it.

Joey Daddario

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:05 pm
by adunion
Hey again Joey! :) You're more than welcome.
Yes I've been spending quite some time trying to sort this out, but unfortunately it still keeps getting worse and not better with the updates. What graphics card are you using, by the way? They claim to be having some issues with Nvidia Quadro cards - like the one I've got.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:51 pm
by joedaddario
Hi Robert,
The Graphics card was the first place I looked. :-)
I am using an ASUS EAH 4350 Silent DI 512MB 2/A. I think it also goes under the name ASUS ATI Radeon however because I believe one of those companies bought the other. Alternately I tried plugging directly into the Motherboard's GPU output but the problem remained. Based on pooling your info and mine I would not think the problem is NVidia related.
HTH,
Joey

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:40 pm
by adunion
Alright! Good to know. That certainly means that the issue is not related to any specific model or brand of graphics card. Mine has been working completely flawless in all other softwares or earlier versions of Cubase, so the problem has to be in the software itself.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:44 pm
by lukasbrooklyn
joedaddario wrote:Thanks for the reply Lucas. So...are you going to go back to C7.5? To me this issue is a show-stopper. The only problem with going back to C7.5 is the crashing upon exit which occurs about 50% of the time. Also I hate to think I've now paid for 2 upgrades (C8 & C8.5) that are un-useable. Again, thanks for your response.
Joey
indeed, because of the various little workflow-hindering updates to cubase 8 i am staying on version 7.5.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:40 pm
by mozart
If this helps...

My HD5450 video card recently died and I swapped it out for an older HD5450 512MB card.

Used the same driver for it but suddenly got hit with laggy graphics in Cubase 8.0.30 and quite high asio load

I've just received a replacement HD5450 (1GB) and popped that in and with the same driver, everything is back to normal.

No laggy graphics and considerably lower asio load.

Am going to purchase 8.5 next week so will update here if there are any changes.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:07 am
by joedaddario
Wow Mozart. Definitely let us know the outcome. I had tried to upgrade my graphics card and almost lost my entire system because the driver removal software uninstalls more than just the graphics card drivers. Thankfully I backed up my system before proceeding. It will be nice to see if you encounter the problem with C8.5. And it sure wouldn't hurt to do a backup of your main hard drive before installing your new card (and I don't mean just setting a restore point).
Thanks for the post.
Joey

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:27 am
by mozart
Thanks for the reminder about doing a bacup. Must admit i've been getting lazy of late and not doing them.

Thanks for the heads up about the driver removal software too, Was going to try that. So glad I didn't!

Going to purchase 8.5 today. Will let you know how I get on....

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:32 am
by mozart
So I've just installed 8.5. Tried some initial tests on a project I was workin on in 8.0.30 and I'm not seeing any noticeable difference in dragging speed or any lag. Sorry if that's not very helpful...If you need any specs from me, do let me know

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:47 pm
by joedaddario
That's quite interesting Mozart. Thanks for the results. Can you tell me a little more about your system such as:
1. Motherboard manufacturer
2. Already know your GPU is an HD5450 (1GB)
3. Are you on Windows 7? or another operating system.
4. How much system memory?
5. CPU Processer and speed.

Thanks again and your email was VERY helpful.
Take care,
Joey

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:53 am
by mozart
No probs.

Mobo: Asus p9x79
Windows 7 sp1 64 bit
64GB ram
Processor i7 3930k hexcore overclocked to 4.4GHz

System is a from Scan 3xs.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:05 am
by joedaddario
Thanks Mozart,
you have a blazing fast system. my goodness. I'm going to ask a few users on this board how much memory they have on their graphics card. I have only 512mb.
again thanks for your info and reporting back so promptly.

blessings
Joey

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:25 pm
by adunion
Mozart: Thanks for chiming in!

Would you say you're getting the same snappy feel of the GUI in C8/8.5 as in C7.5 and earlier versions when working on a project that has around 15-20 tracks?

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:52 pm
by Sekkle
Hi Joey,

Yeah I have the exact same issues with Cubase 8.5, and Cubase 7.5 is working perfectly.

Here's a couple of videos I did (please excuse the unedited iphone recording) showing the difference in performance between the two with midi note resizing -

Cubase 7.5
https://youtu.be/qQwZhRx2gvc

Cubase 8.5
https://youtu.be/9lMoyRiTyOI

It's a show stopper for me and has been the reason I haven't been able to use any incarnation of Cubase 8 so far. Both paid upgrades so far have been a waste of money imo.

I have a pretty grunty new machine from AAVIM Technology and am still getting this issue.

So frustrating - why did they have to change to this Aero theme requirement?? It's completely ruined the program for a lot of users. I'm surprised it's not fixed in Cubase 8.5, and instead we are getting pretty new icons in the media bay rack.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:07 pm
by dorianmarko
Hey everyone

Been struggling with this issue for a while, and seem to have found a solution-ish. I'll write everything I experimented with so hopefully bits of it might help others who are getting the problem.

So I work in projects sometimes over 1000 tracks with a lot of audio/MIDI/instrument and FX tracks, and the rubber band thing (which occurred during moving items, using the scissors, re-sizing, drawing a selection box and a lot more), was there whether I had a 1500 track project open, or a blank project with a single MIDI track...

I can confirm it has nothing to do with the power or specs of your PC. I had this issue on my old one, and the new one which I got recently, with the fastest i7 CPU, full of RAM, clean install of windows blah blah.

At first, I thought there was an issue because I would get the lag more on my 4k monitor, than if I dragged the project to the other 1080p screens... so I got a good GPU... no luck. It was a bit faster, but the main problem was still there... hence, GPU will not fix the issue.

In the end, I found the 8.0.0 version of Cubase saved on a hard drive. I uninstalled the version I had (not sure which update it was... the latest I think)... installed 8.0.0, and voila, the problem has disappeared, completely, for projects of all sizes. If you can, it might be a good idea to try and put the original version 8 back in and see if this solves it for you too, I'd be very curious to know if the problem is in one of the updates! I can't remember if there are any really important features of any of the updates which might stop people downgrading back to the original version?

Anyway, hope it helps.

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:18 pm
by prolik
BON-14752

I received mail from technical support manager. This is part of mail:
"It looks like development found the issue two days ago. At the moment it's scheduled for the next maintenance updates for both Cubase 8.0.x and Cubase 8.5.x and should be released within the next two to six weeks."

So waiting now for the update/fix and hope this issue will be solved once for all, since it was deal breaker for any further updates and working with such stutter was a drag!
Thnx Steinberg for looking to solve this problem, it's been a long but manager contacted me all the time as they were making progress.. :)

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:45 am
by joedaddario
Well that IS great news prolik. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Joey

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:49 am
by joedaddario
Hi Robert,

I wasn't sure the PM response I made to you ever left my Outbox so here is the message:

Sorry for the late reply but I was out of town at NAMM for a few weeks. Great show btw. I got Chris F Martin's autograph and spoke with him for quite a while at a reception held for us NAMM Foundation non-profit associates. He's a cool guy.

Thanks for the feedback. I have gone back to C7.5.

I have, however, ordered a 1GB graphics card. Totally different brand than my current Radeon 512MB card. Basically just troubleshooting and it can't hurt (hopefully) to upgrade the card.

But I fear you are right. Something in the C8+ software is not playing nice with the GPU. Too bad. It must have something to do with Steinberg's decision to insist on Windows users turning on AERO. Although, didn't you say you had the same issue on a Mac? Please let me know.

I'm sure Steinberg will get it sorted out.
Joey

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:35 pm
by prolik
I have upgraded to Nvidie Geforce GTX 950 which should eat maxed-out games at 1080p.
The problem still persist in Cubase, yet 10-20% better - but it's still there.
So, waiting for the fix :)

Re: Dragging Parts Lagging behind

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:05 am
by joedaddario
OH darn, I was hoping upgrading my graphics card would solve the issue. Thanks for reporting this Prolik!!
Joey