Information update: new video engine development

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by djw » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:10 pm

I feel like you're making up things as you go. It's not up to Microsoft what happens with Quicktime, that's why you were corrected.
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by Larioso » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:24 pm

djw wrote:I feel like you're making up things as you go. It's not up to Microsoft what happens with Quicktime, that's why you were corrected.
And yet Microsoft deprecated Quicktime and not considered as safe on Windows.

Obviously any vendor can make any software they like for Windows.
And Microsoft can consider it a safety hazard and declare it unwanted and highly recommended not to use it - that is what deprecated means.

I am a developer and there are many calls in Windows Api that are over time considered deprecated, not recommended for use in new applications.

This is what deprecated means. Just use an english dictionary.

https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA16-105A
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by djw » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:31 pm

Larioso wrote: And yet Microsoft deprecated Quicktime and not considered as safe on Windows.
Larioso wrote:And Microsoft can consider it a safety hazard and declare it unwanted and highly recommended not to use it - that is what deprecated means.
Where and when?
Larioso wrote: I am a developer and there are many calls in Windows Api that are over time considered deprecated, not recommended for use in new applications.
This isn't about API calls.
That's not Microsoft's website and it says Apple discontinued it.


I'll leave it at this. Please don't spread misinformation.
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by -steve- » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:49 pm

Larioso wrote:And yet Microsoft deprecated Quicktime and not considered as safe on Windows
As has been stated, this is not accurate. Please be careful about posting correct info.

It is the Quicktime Player that has the vulnerability, not the libraries, as Fredo has patiently pointed out, but some people refuse to believe.

Also,
Larioso wrote: You obviously start checking licensing terms at the same time as you start looking at replacing Quicktime - and any codec or developer library you look at!!!!
You don't make engine ready, and then start thinking about licensing.
Please note that moderators with names in green are not Steinberg Employees, so consider directing your advice to the correct parties.
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by Larioso » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:13 am

Sorry guys, you can divert focus from my core argument all you want.
Misconception is that no safety issue if player is uninstalled.
Steinberg support said this last fall:
"Among others, you will learn in this article how to minimize the securitiy risk, if you depend on the video function of Cubase and Nuendo under Windows. "

My core issue is how Steinberg handle this and is beyond description.

And final straw was that I was not able to get a confirmation when Steinberg drop Windows 7 for Cubase.
If they will support until Microsoft drop it - or as it happended with Halion just now(even if backed off for the moment).

Steinberg support:
"We will at some point discontinue the support for Windows 7 but I cannot comment on the time frame for this."

I read a number that 40% PC still are using Windows 7 - and looking at new computers Windows 7 is mostly preinstalled with W10 upgrade, or if W10 preinstalled, sure to mention have downgrades to Windows 7 included.

I'm not getting a new computer either, because Steinberg says so.

Sorry for a bit off topic, but it sums up total score for me.

I see no future in Cubase for me - and looked at Reaper that now fully get all the headroom I need for future - and not needing Quicktime either for video. It will run with DirectShow or VLC.

My former reasons for dropping Reaper is now fixed, VST3 support, officially supported by Waves, and VCA's.
So soon to uninstall everything Steinberg(Cubase Elements 7 n 8, Pro 8.0. 8.5 and 9.0) - as well a eLicenser which I don't need anymore.

And Sonar is backup, also not needing Quicktime for video.

Cubase is a very fine daw and tool - but sadly a dead end street for me. :(
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by lemix » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:27 pm

You sound a bit sour, sorry to hear.
I use Nuendo daily without any issues , running QT as is. Apple, OSX, Avid have their own rules about updating and frequently dropping support. Trust me..we are having better longevity with our current tools...as they currently are.

Best luck...
cheers,
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by uarte » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:03 pm

I'm personally very disappointed that Steinberg has delayed so long with the new video engine as well. I understand the licensing issue, but surely they could have released the engine without the problematic codecs in question and left it as an OPTION for those who wished to continue with the old engine.

Delaying it NEEDLESSLY exposes thousands of users to unknown risk. Certainly at least one or two codecs have already passed any licensing issues!

For those of you who keep saying there is no risk, please re-read even Steinberg's own helpcenter page about it:

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... or-Windows

Obvioulsy, I don't want to get into an argument with the fine folks here who want to downplay this, and I really appreciate users such as Fredo who have written up so much good info - HOWEVER, let me quote from the helpcenter page:
"If you need to work with videos in Cubase/Nuendo on a Windows machine, you should minimise the security risk by limiting the QuickTime installation to necessary components. Read on to find out how this can be achieved. However, only uninstalling QuickTime will remove the potential threat completely!"
Also:
"Please note that Steinberg cannot be held responsible for any damages caused by installing and/or using QuickTime!"
Also, after explaining how to remove the QT player it is clear an unknown risk still exists:
"7. Additional security measurements
Now you have a QuickTime installation without QuickTime Player and the browser plug-in - which are the most vulnerable components. In this way, the risk of an attack via the discovered security gaps in QuickTime for Windows has been reduced to the minimum. However, videos containing malicious code still could do harm. Therefore you should only import video of verified origin in Cubase/Nuendo!"
But take a look again near the top of the helpcenter notice:
"...According to reports, an attack through the security gaps in QuickTime for Windows is possible, but not highly likely. ... the risk increases constantly due to the missing security patches."
Bold added for emphasis.

Anyway, it's disheartening that Steinberg has taken so long on this. Other security notices have been much more urgent... Steinberg may be downplaying the remaining risks. Security in this scenario should be the #1 priority -- the feature list is secondary -- and at the minimum, Steinberg should have given us the OPTION. I understand they want to have a nice fancy engine with all the codecs we're used to... but meanwhile we're sitting here exposed to higher risk. And frankly, Steinberg's own helpcenter pages are very conservative compared to other notices I have read about QT. So Steinberg's assurances are NOT confidence-building. Other DAWs have already replaced their video engines -- and yes, they are simpler engines -- but still, Steinberg could have easily given us the OPTION to use a reduced-codec engine so we could rid our computers of the highly risky QT libraries.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:03 pm

Hi Uarte,

I too am shocked at how long it has taken Steinberg to resolve this one; and I agree with you on the 'risk factor' points.

I think it has been about 18 x months now? I laid out of this conversation a while back because members were accusing/complaining that I was unjustifiably "moaning". But I am sure "June" was mentioned as the release date (although I may be wrong as there are at least two threads discussing this matter). In any event, obviously there has been no release as yet (my reason for visiting here today was to check on any progress...).

Ta,

Paul

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by uarte » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:30 pm

Dear Steinberg,

Now that Nuendo 8 has been released with the new video engine, can you please tell us when we can expect it for Cubase???

On your support page you mention: "Please note that a new video engine has been introduced with Nuendo 8 (Cubase will follow at a later point)."

What exactly does "at a later point" mean?

Thank you in advance for responding.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by Fredo » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:34 pm

Doubt that you will get answers here on the Nuendo forums.
Please don't cross-post.

Fredo

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by Bruese » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:07 pm

Good evening,
Nuendo 8 is out now, fine. When will the new videoengine be available for N7 customers?

Carsten

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by ChrisPolus » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:41 am

From Nuendo 8 forums, Timo says:

"Hello,

yes, there will be an update called Nuendo 7.1.40 coming about 4-6 weeks after the Nuendo 8 launch.
It will include the new video engine."
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by preciousillusion » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:05 am

If the new engine has been released with Nuendo, presumably all licensing is cleared out.

"The engine is ready, our Marketing team is waiting for licensing issues to be cleared out"

So according to Steinberg themselves there no longer exists a reason for not releasing it.. ..still it's not released..

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:19 pm

I'm guessing Steinberg is working on possibly a few more fixes for N7 before releasing it.

More importantly though, there are several reports about potential issues with N8 and it seems right now (from a user perspective) that perhaps some of it is related to the video engine. So I hope Steinberg is spending their time fixing N8 for all those who paid for it, as well as making sure that if there are any issues with the video engine they don't migrate that to N7 as well - because then they'd have two versions to fix.

Like "we" have said before; this QT issue isn't urgent. Just take a moderate amount of precaution and you'll be safe and can work as you have all this time.
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by fenderchris » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:19 pm

I agree. Steinberg must be very nervous about spreading the problem to N7. At least users experiencing issues with N8 can revert back to N7 at the moment (unless N8 is their first experience of Nuendo).
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by Leonard_A » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:30 pm

They will end up selling the video engine in its next update (Pro 9.5).

Save my words.
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by uarte » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:41 pm

Leonard_A wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:30 pm
They will end up selling the video engine in its next update (Pro 9.5).

Save my words.
I hope you're wrong, and I seriously doubt Steinberg would stoop that low. However, if they do that, I will never, ever buy another Steinberg product again. I'm already at the end of the line as it is, but that would end my relationship permanently. They appear to have already gone back on their promise for Cubase 8.5, and forcing a paid upgrade to 9.5 would put them in a whole new category of broken promises.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by Romantique Tp » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:49 pm

Save your baseless cynicism for after Cubase 9.0.30 is released.
Every time someone says "it must be easy to add/fix", a programmer dies.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by uarte » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:33 pm

Romantique Tp wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:49 pm
Save your baseless cynicism for after Cubase 9.0.30 is released.
If your response was directed at me, my cynicism isn't baseless, and just for the record, my statement started out that "I hope you're wrong..." in reference to Leonard_A's comment. And while I'm sure Leonard_A doesn't need my defense of his statement, the facts thus far don't lend a lot of confidence to Steinberg's recent performance on this issue.

And I am waiting as patiently as I can for 9.0.30 as well as 8.5.40. I do think it's somewhat ironic that Steinberg is currently offering a 40% discount for Cubase upgrades right now.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:05 am

Leonard_A wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:30 pm
They will end up selling the video engine in its next update (Pro 9.5).

Save my words.
They've promised to update Nuendo 7.x for free with the new engine. You're talking about Cubase. This is the Nuendo section.
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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by uarte » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:13 am

Right, they also promised to update Cubase 8.5 and 9.0 with the new engine.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by uarte » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:02 pm

FYI - Cubase 9 just got the new video engine today -- 1 year, 3 months, 28 days (484 days) since the original announcement. Nothing listed so far for Cubase 8.5 or Nuendo 7.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:43 pm

Hi uarte,
uarte wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:02 pm
FYI - Cubase 9 just got the new video engine today -- 1 year, 3 months, 28 days (484 days) since the original announcement. Nothing listed so far for Cubase 8.5 or Nuendo 7.
So is the new video engine available and up & running in Cubase_9 now, please?

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by uarte » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:56 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:43 pm
Hi uarte,

So is the new video engine available and up & running in Cubase_9 now, please?

Cheers,

Paul
Yes, Cubase 9 now has the new video engine, but the performance is not very good yet. It will require a lot of optimization to bring it up to the performance of the old engine, as well as other competing DAWs. However, it is usable. Not great. But usable. If you have a project that is on the edge of your CPU, there's a good chance you'll have glitches or other issues. Good luck.

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Re: Information update: new video engine development

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:00 pm

uarte wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:56 pm

Yes, Cubase 9 now has the new video engine, but the performance is not very good yet. It will require a lot of optimization to bring it up to the performance of the old engine, as well as other competing DAWs. However, it is usable. Not great. But usable. If you have a project that is on the edge of your CPU, there's a good chance you'll have glitches or other issues. Good luck.
Thanks a lot,

I would have thought SB would not have released it until it was fully working? I assumed that was why the delay in it's arrival was so long?

Cheers.

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