Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by zz0zz » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:24 pm

Back on Facebook there are several very unhappy campers and I can’t blame them. We were promised a fix with 9.5.30 and there was none. If I had known Wavelab was this buggy I would not have purchased it a few months back.

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Justin P » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:13 pm

I've been pretty vocal on here about the 3rd party plugins issue. I've tried to get the point across to Steinberg that regardless of whose fault a plugin bug is, it reflects poorly on WaveLab to have so many 3rd party plugin issues in all these years. Before I moved to WaveLab in 2012 or so, I was using Waveburner and Pro Tools for mastering. It never crossed my mind to do plugin beta testing, everything just worked.

When I started using WaveLab, I was quite surprised how many plugin issues there were. I would say that roughly 20% of the plugin issues were something fixable on the WaveLab side, and about 80% of the issues needed (or still need) to be fixed by the plugin developers.

I'm now on the beta team for probably close to a dozen plugin developers because when a plugin I like to use has an issue in WaveLab, I usually report the issue to the developer, only to find that they don't really test in WaveLab (only Cubase) so then they try to fix the issue and send me a beta version and usually it's solved in a relatively short amount of time. I see their reason to point blame at the plugin developers in some cases but when there is such a high number of plugins and new plugins that time and time again have issues, this has to be a red flag that something needs to be done differently.

Unless Steinberg makes an effort to do some outreach and create better tools for plugin developers to properly code and then TEST their plugins so that even in WaveLab we don't see these consistent issues, the best course of action as the WaveLab user is going to be to reach out to the plugin developers directly to see if they've tested their plugins in WaveLab specifically. If it's a reproducible and serious issue, it should indicate that they haven't really tested WaveLab and maybe you can convince them to do so. I can see why some users of WaveLab would not want to be doing this on a regular basis but I value WaveLab's workflow and features so much that for me it's worth the time and effort that I put in.

I don't know anything about plugin coding but I get the sense that it's possible to create a plugin that will be stable in Cubase, but not in WaveLab. Whose fault it is apparently debatable but I do think Steinberg should do some outreach to make the plugin developers less fearful, annoyed, and confused by VST3 because I've heard from more than one plugin developer that VST3 is not something they consider a great format to code for. As I've said before, when a new plugin is released, I expect it to fail in WaveLab and if it doesn't, it's miracle. At this time I feel that at least half of the new plugins I try (particularly from smaller companies that have just a few plugins) don't work right in WaveLab at first.

This is likely why Sonnox took so long to release VST3 versions of their plugins, and why Universal Audio (who have a high standard of quality in my opinion) still have not released VST3 versions of their plugins.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by PG » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:44 pm

Some problems that were reported with Ambisonic, Eventide, Audiocation, were solved in 9.5.30.
I was told the problem with Acustica plugin was solved, but someone recently denied this.

VST-2 is an old format which has ambiguities in its specifications. Therefore all plugins don't behave the same.
VST-3 is a more reliable format (though more complex for the plugin writer)
Therefore, it is recommended to use VST-3 plugins.

This being said, the issues reported recently will be checked.

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by mindseyedub » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:45 am

9.5.30 with Acustica Audio Ruby still crash... I can confirm. Wavelab just close when render button is pressed otherwise it works. The same in 32/64 plug-in processing.

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by PG » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:49 pm

I could try today and confirm. But the problems happens inside the plugin. The Acustica company will be notified.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by mindseyedub » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:58 pm

Thanks... Ruby and Pink for sure....

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Mauri » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:55 am

WL 9.5.30 still crashes when rendering if Acustica-Audio Aquamarine is loaded... :(
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by PG » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:26 am

As already mentioned, the Acustica company has be notified. This is not WaveLab that is crashing: this is the plugin that crashes, and then that makes WaveLab crashing.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Mauri » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:16 pm

PG wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:26 am
As already mentioned, the Acustica company has be notified. This is not WaveLab that is crashing: this is the plugin that crashes, and then that makes WaveLab crashing.
Thanks PG, I hope they fix it, Aquamarine is my favourite mastering compressor so I would like to use it in WL.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Arionas » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:49 pm

Hi PG,
What I see in my system is that after v.9.5.15, all my Acustica plugins will crash the program on render.
If it is the plugin that crashes, why then this doesn't happen in Wavelab 9.5.15 ?
I mean that the only change in the system is about the last Wavelab updates.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by PG » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:54 pm

The ball is in the camp of Acustica to answer this question. But a difference, is that under 9.5.15, the Acustica operates in 32 bit float samples, while in 9.5.30, it operates in 64 bit. I guess their problem is there.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Arionas » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:57 am

PG wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:54 pm
The ball is in the camp of Acustica to answer this question. But a difference, is that under 9.5.15, the Acustica operates in 32 bit float samples, while in 9.5.30, it operates in 64 bit. I guess their problem is there.
I understand, thanks.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by mindseyedub » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:46 am

From bad to worse.... People who invested a lot of money in plugins that work in Cubase, Reaper and S1 etc...but not in Wavelab (latest updates) will have to decide which way to go as Acustica Audio mentioned that if things persist they are going to mark Wavelab as not compatible :s

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by mindseyedub » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:52 am

Giancarlo Del Sordo (AA CEO): Also other hosts are doing it. They changed it and it doesn't work. Also 32 bits mode is not working any more. I don't have crashes at all in reaper, or studio one. They asked to use trial versions for testing, they can't even provide normal versions like avid or other vendors are doing. I think we'll give a glance in August or september, but something changed and it is "not just 64 bits". Hope you understand it.

Giancarlo Del Sordo: I didn't change anything... They changed and now everything is broken. At this point things will require time, but it is against the logic that I have something broken without changing anything on my side AND cubase is working.

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Justin P » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:44 pm

mindseyedub wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:52 am
Giancarlo Del Sordo (AA CEO): Also other hosts are doing it. They changed it and it doesn't work. Also 32 bits mode is not working any more. I don't have crashes at all in reaper, or studio one. They asked to use trial versions for testing, they can't even provide normal versions like avid or other vendors are doing. I think we'll give a glance in August or september, but something changed and it is "not just 64 bits". Hope you understand it.

Giancarlo Del Sordo: I didn't change anything... They changed and now everything is broken. At this point things will require time, but it is against the logic that I have something broken without changing anything on my side AND cubase is working.
Even though Cubase and WaveLab are made by Steinberg, you should let Giancarlo Del Sordo know that they are not the same DAW and it's possible to follow VST spec close enough that all appears OK in one DAW, but not in another DAW. It's not so black and white.

AA is not the only plugin company to suffer from issues in WaveLab but they seem to be one of the most stubborn about solving the issue which in the long run would be helpful to them to make more sales. Many other plugin companies have taken actions to get their plugins working OK in WaveLab.

Normally I'd give them some benefit of doubt but since I found nothing about the process of demoing, buying, activating and otherwise using their plugins, I can't help but think that maybe they need to make some more global changes.

I know many people swear by these plugins but all the hassles I had with them (not even related to WaveLab) when trying to audition them does not inspire me to give them any more chances. Maybe they make the best sounding analog models but what good is it if they are so problematic in more than one DAW? The latency alone is hard to deal with and tells you something about their optimization or lack of.

I think maybe they need more resources so that people good with the programming can focus on that, and other people can focus on QA, website sales/demo, authorization etc.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Arionas » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:30 pm

Hi Justin, you are a gentleman and a nice guy (in the past you helped me a lot in some subjects) but I think your statement about Acustica Audio is a little bit unfair.
I did run through some tests and I discovered that when you render the audio files through Audio Montage section in Wavelab (I mean when someone load the Aquas in that section and NOT in the Master Section), everything is going fine. There is no crash!! I even did "burn" a DDP file using Aquas ONLINE and it created successfully. So I think that PG must take a deeper look in this issue and not to wait Acustica Audio to make the next step.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by PG » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:49 pm

I think that PG must take a deeper look in this issue and not to wait Acustica Audio to make the next step.
It is not possible because the copy protection of Acustica prevents checking.
I don't understand why an Acustica programmer has not yet tried, because they have a WaveLab at their disposal.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Arionas » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:48 pm

PG wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:49 pm
I think that PG must take a deeper look in this issue and not to wait Acustica Audio to make the next step.
It is not possible because the copy protection of Acustica prevents checking.
I don't understand why an Acustica programmer has not yet tried, because they have a WaveLab at their disposal.
Hey PG! I spent many hours today checking various Aquas. (I'm on mac OS X)
I can ensure you that I didn't have any crash while I was using not just one, but many instances of AA plugins inside Clip - Track - Output effects in an Audio Montage. I did render - export ddp without crashing the program.
Is there any explanation for this behaviour? Why the crash happens only through the Master Section?
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by PG » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:33 am

Master Section section and montage are not working exactly in the same way.
But again, the copy protection of Acustica prevents any investigation.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Arionas » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:18 am

Ok, at least for me now this is a workaround.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by mindseyedub » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:57 am

Comment from JUCE framework creator Jules about Wavelab compatibility: "Would love to be able to say we fully support WL, but debugging and finding workarounds for its weird behaviour can be a ridiculously time-consuming and frustrating process!".

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by bob99 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:22 am

Ok, but the thread that quote is from was discussing a plugin that didn't work in Wavelab 6, but did work in Wavelab 7 and 8. It was quite a while ago. I hope the current issue can be worked out.
Last edited by bob99 on Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Kay Thomsen » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:25 am

I got another email from them saying they are now discovering the issue...

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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by PG » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:27 am

Comment from JUCE framework creator Jules about Wavelab compatibility
Totally outdated.
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Re: Wavelab 9.5.2 + AA Ruby = Crash

Post by Arjan P » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:34 am

@mindseyedub: You just weakened your argument quite considerably. Quotes without hyperlink are useless.
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