Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

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zoundman
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Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:48 pm

I recently updated to 9.5.35 and have been getting audible clipping on playback of files that contain clipping and intersample peaks above 0.
I have not changed any hardware or driver, but before, I was aware of the clippings on the peak meters displaying a positive number in red but didn't reflect on the sound. I have checked all settings including "Monitor 16 bit dither" in the master section and it's off.
Could it be that the monitoring is at 16 bit fixed instead of the 32 bit float?

Cheers
WIN10-64 (latest)
Last edited by zoundman on Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

bob99
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by bob99 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:49 am

zoundman wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:48 pm
Could it be that the monitoring is at 16 bit fixed instead of the 32 bit float?
You mean 64 bit float? Were you on 9.5.x previously, or 9.0 - 9.1? What does the bitmeter say?

zoundman
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:35 am

Yes, you're right. 64 bit. I was on 9.5.10 before.
The bit meter displays the correct bit depth. Files that are 24 bit are displayed as 24 and as soon as I change the volume envelope (In a montage)it goes to 64 bit on the meter (as it should). That's when I hear the clipping. The weird part is if I return the volume envelope back to zero, it remains in 64 bit and the clipping continues. If I delete the clip and drag and drop it again, it goes back to 24 bit.
I will edit my original post to note that I'm on WIN10-64 (latest)
Thanks for the reply.

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by PG » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:40 am

How do you return the enveloppe back to 0?
Philippe

zoundman
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:07 pm

PG wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:40 am
How do you return the enveloppe back to 0?
I usually pull down the envelope back to 0 manually.

I just tried with the right click menu "Reset level to 0 dB" and it goes back to 24 bits..
So, i'm guessing the 0 I see with the popup display isn't an exact 0

I'm thinking of reinstalling from scratch. I could not find the uninstall option in the installer.
Thanks

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by PG » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:47 pm

I'm thinking of reinstalling from scratch.
Why for?
Philippe

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Thomas W. Bethel
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:59 pm

Getting something similar. Using WL 9.5.35, on Windows 7 Pro. Playing back a file today with only one plugin Pro Audio DSP Dynamic Spectrum Mapper V2 . Everything is working GREAT then all of a sudden the level jumps 6 dB and everything is distorting. I turned off the plug in and still the same thing. I tried a different file and still the same problem. Shut down WL and reopened it and everything was back to normal. Weird. I was not doing anything except bypassing the plugin and then BOOM the level jumps. The WL meters showed a 6 dB increase in level and the red over indicators showed 2.3 to 2.7 dB over FS. No problems with other plugins so far. A bit scary FWIW!!!
Thomas W. Bethel
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zoundman
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:52 pm

PG wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:47 pm
I'm thinking of reinstalling from scratch.
Why for?
Because this is not a normal WL behavior. I've used WL since V5. This happened (Or I noticed) after upgrading to 9.5.35
I use other DAWs and don't have that problem. Say I open a file in Sequoia in the equivalent of the Montage and turn up the gain on a clip 6 dbs.
It's most likely going to show x amount of dbs above FS, say +3.5db.. Even though it's going over FS, the sound on my speakers is clean.
With WL 9.5.35, when the Peakmeter shows positive values in red, you can hear a distortion or crackle in the sound.It's very noticeable say on kick and snare. I have not changed audio interface or drivers.

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by PG » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:35 pm

I don't get it. You say you go over Full Scale, and you notice some distortion. Seems normal, no?
Philippe

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:00 am

PG wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:35 pm
I don't get it. You say you go over Full Scale, and you notice some distortion. Seems normal, no?
Well, Like I mentioned, I would hear distortion if I rendered the file like that to say 16 bit fixed without a brickwall limiter.
But, while playing back I could have my meters show +6dB above 0 and not hear distortion because it's 32 (now 64) bit float.
The bit meter shows correctly that it's at 64 bit float.
If I do the same in Sequoia or in Izotope RX6 it sounds fine.

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by PG » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:54 am

Well, WaveLab does not introduce processing by itself. This is you who control processing by using plugins.
Therefore, try to narrow down the problem.
Philippe

zoundman
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:40 pm

This happens without plugins and without touching gain either in wave editor or montage. Just playing back a file with intersample peaks above FS produces the audible clipping.
I will test with another machine.

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by S-EH » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:22 pm

Hi!

Have you checked with built-in Audio Signal Generator !?
make an sinus tone at 440 Hz and 1000 Hz etc in Mono and Stereo at 0 dB
and playback as Audio File and in Montage
I get normal reading in Master Section/Master Level and in Loudness Meter
0 dB is 0 dB FS
even try with other software Audacity, Cubase, Nuendo etc

regards S-EH
RME Fireface 800, WaveLab, Cubase...

zoundman
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:50 am

Finally took my old WIN10-32 machine out of the closet with WL9.0.25, connected it, works fine. I can have audio going over a few dBs (+ 4-5 dB )and it sounds fine, obviously if I keep pushing it will start to sound clipped, but an "expected" or "normal" type of distortion.
Please note that I don't normally do this. This is for testing purposes only..
I decided to uninstall WL9.5.35 completely from my WIN10-64 machine and re-install from the Steinberg Download Assistant's 9.5.15 installer.
Did the same tests...Works fine (yey!) just like my old 32bit machine.
Now, with a brand new and newly downloaded 9.5.35 updater, I updated and did the same tests.... Distortion :/
As soon as the meter goes 1dB over, you can hear a sharp crackling sound unlike the "normal" sounding clipping from the other versions.
So, for now, I'm staying with 9.5.15. Will test with the next update.
Cheers

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by PG » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:36 pm

I don't understand why you hear more distortion than normal.
I have tested with a 220 Hz sine file normalized at 0 dB. When I raise the gain from 0 to +6dB step by step (Master Section), I obtain the same distorted sound with 9.5.35 and older WaveLab versions, inc. 8.x.
Philippe

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by bob99 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:04 pm

fwiw, I haven't been able to reproduce the problem yet either. Reaper and all versions of Wavelab start clipping for me at the same point, using 1 KHz sine, or random music, on Windows 10. Multiple interfaces.

EDIT: I don't hear a crackling distortion sound unique to Wavelab 9.5.35 (I think I know what you're talking about having heard crackling distortion in multiple cases in the past). All the Wavelab versions distortion sounds the same to me, none with crackling really.

zoundman
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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by zoundman » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:25 am

PG - BOB sent you a PM
I tried on macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 (17G65) WL-9.5.35 and it works ok as expected.

So I guess the problem it's specific to my machine config and version.
Gigabyte Z97X-SLI (LGA 1150) | GeForce GTX 750 | Intel Haswell i7 4770K@ 4 Ghz | 16 GB DDR3 1866Mhz | Kingston Hyper X 480 gb SSD System Drive | WIN10-64

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Re: Wavelab Pro 9.5.35 Playback Clipping

Post by PG » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:56 am

Thanks for the video. I think the problem is rather at the driver level. But to have a more precise idea, it would be nice if you could send me the music piece you are using in your demo, so that I see if I can reproduce. I tried with some drum music here, but I could not detect a difference. Maybe your music piece has special transients that reveal the problem better.
Philippe

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