Multirests in Parts

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
Vaughan Schlepp
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by Vaughan Schlepp » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:25 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:No, at the moment you cannot split multi-bar rests except where Dorico chooses to split them, which it does according to the established conventions for how multi-bar rests should be split...
I'm afraid this is the very attitude which bothers Finale users about Sibelius. While I agree that a notation program should observe established conventions, it should always permit the user to change the notation if necessary. While I'm sure that Dorico will eventually allow more of this kind of freedom, at the moment it determines too many things itself which the user is unable to change, like certain note spacing problems (e.g. sometimes leaving too much space between lyric syllables) or unwanted space between staves or systems. I'm aware that user-defined horizontal note adjustments and vertical staff adjustments are two things scoped for the 1.0.10 update but, in general, those users who want control over the notation should have that freedom without having to jump through technical hoops.
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Runter vom Sofa
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by Runter vom Sofa » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:14 am

I encountered something related, so I think there is no need for a new thread.

In the score:
  • Bar 31 has a double bar line.
    Bar 31 also has a tempo marking.
    Bar 33 has a rehearsal mark.
In one of the parts:
  • Tacet from bar 29 to middle of 34.
    Instrument change when starting in bar 34.
Result in the part layout:
  • A five bar multi rest from 29 to 33.
    So the double bar line in bar 31 is disregarded.
    The tempo marking, instrument change instruction, and rehearsal mark are placed over the multi bar rest.
That problem is absent in all other part layouts, and a test confirms it has to do with the instrument change. Bug? Something I missed? Anything I can do to solve this?

ReRei
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by ReRei » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:54 am

Have you tried to input text into those bar you want not to be included into the multirest and then make the text invisible with white color in properties?

pianoleo
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by pianoleo » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:56 am

See this thread viewtopic.php?f=246&t=119993

There's a fix theoretically coming in the next few days.
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Runter vom Sofa
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by Runter vom Sofa » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:02 am

Thank you both, for your workaround and for the info about the bug!

david-p
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by david-p » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:52 pm

Vaughan Schlepp wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:25 pm
Daniel at Steinberg wrote:No, at the moment you cannot split multi-bar rests except where Dorico chooses to split them, which it does according to the established conventions for how multi-bar rests should be split...
I'm afraid this is the very attitude which bothers Finale users about Sibelius. While I agree that a notation program should observe established conventions, it should always permit the user to change the notation if necessary.
I sympathise with your view and I wonder when these conventions were established and by whom. I do not remember being taught many, beyond what was in the book of rudiments (by Curwen?) that I had and, as I recall it, the most advanced rules I was taught were those for grouping rests in different time signatures.

The same was true about written English. How did I ever manage to write extended essays without having memorised The Chicago Manual of Style?

I think a lot of these "conventions", rather than being observations of the actual practice of musicians, are made up by academics who have decided to write a rule book, and who fill in the gaps they encounter with their own decisions. As my mother used to say: "What they dont know, they make up!"

As far as multirests go, their primary purpose is to save space in a part, and they should obviously do this while indicating to the player any changes of tempo, key, metre, etc, that he or she needs to know. This may allow for some flexibility.

A notation program like Dorico obviously has to have formatting rules and, to be fair, it does allow the user to choose among options for many of these rules. I never had any dissatisfaction with multirests in Sibelius, unless I had made an error, and I expect that Dorico will in the fullness of time be at least as good.

David
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by pianoleo » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:32 pm

Daniel's stated elsewhere on this forum that cues will not be in the imminent minor update, but will come in the next major update (in the autumn/fall). I expect we'll be given control over where cues appear, and thus slightly more control over how multirests are handled.
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lbuckley
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by lbuckley » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:47 am

This looks like a bug to me, I'm afraid. A bar rest with a pause on it shouldn't be consolidated into a multi-bar rest. We'll fix this as soon as we can.
Daniel, I think that in fixing this, you may have created an unintended consequence. When I put a breath mark at the end of a bar, it broke the multirest it had been part of, and that isn't desirable. See attachment...

Is there any way around that?

Thanks,

Lew
Screen Shot 2018-01-18 at 9.35.20 PM.png
(22.35 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Lew Buckley
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Derrek
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by Derrek » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:07 pm

Perhaps that feature should be selectable in the future.
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:10 pm

We’ll look into the problem with breath marks causing multi-bar rests to break in the future, Lew.

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Re: Multirests in Parts

Post by cbdavis » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:11 am

Is there still a hidden time signature issue? I have a file in which there are hidden time signatures on barlines that are breaking multi-bar rests, but when I unhide them, it appears to be a time signature several bars before the barline in question.

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