Freezing layout

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
Post Reply
Vaughan Schlepp
Member
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:09 am
Contact:

Freezing layout

Post by Vaughan Schlepp » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:10 am

Sometimes I'll have a good layout but then I move something slightly and everything after that gets altered unnecessarily. Is there a way of keeping the number of bars per system from changing? And is there a way to force a bar up to a previous system even though Dorico thinks it might be too crowded? I've tried using the Create System Break command and sometimes it works but sometimes Dorico just puts the measure in a system by itself instead of moving it up.
Also, occasionally Dorico leaves too much space between two notes, especially if there are lyrics attached. I can shift the lyrics so that the gap is no longer necessary but Dorico ignores this. Is there any way I can tell Dorico to respace the bar?
MacPro (late 2013), 16GB RAM
MacBookPro (early 2011), 8 GB RAM
Sierra (OS 10.12.6)
Dorico 1.1.10
Finale 3.2-25.4, Sibelius 5-7

User avatar
Daniel at Steinberg
Moderator
Posts: 5653
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:35 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:15 am

To lock the contents of a system, use the Lock System button in Engrave mode; similarly you can do that for a whole frame with Lock Frame.

If Dorico puts only one bar on a system after inserting a system break, it's because it thinks the previous system is still too full already, and you'll need to force its hand, by selecting the first note of the first bar on the previous system and the last note of the orphaned bar on the second system and choosing Make Into System.

You can't currently edit rhythmic spacing, and this won't be possible in the 1.0.10 update either (though you will be able to edit vertical spacing), but it's a high priority for the next update.

richardC
Junior Member
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by richardC » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:55 pm

When you lock a frame or a system does some little icon show up to show you've done this. I'd selected first and last notes on frames and systems I want locked but don't see anything happen.

User avatar
Daniel at Steinberg
Moderator
Posts: 5653
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:35 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:28 am

If you have View > Signposts > Frame Breaks and View > Signposts > System Breaks switched on, you should absolutely see signposts that show you the formatting has been locked.

Romanos401
Member
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:18 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Romanos401 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:28 pm

I'm going to revive this conversation with a twist: is there any way to lock layout spacing?! I have spaced out my pages perfectly using both the make into frame/ system commands as well as manually tweaking all of my staff spacing by typing in exact values. Perhaps this is a "learn your lesson" moment for me however, I've since gone back to add a few small textual cues that are supposed to be nestled between a grand staff. The problem is when I go to add the text, it totally obliterates my meticulously planned spacing. The worst part is there is plenty of room for the text, but Dorico thinks it needs to add more. And so I repeat, is there a way to lock the stave spacing on a page?

User avatar
Daniel at Steinberg
Moderator
Posts: 5653
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:35 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:37 pm

Unfortunately there is not, although I think this would be a good idea, and I will talk to Andrew, our spacing guru, about what it might take to make this possible when we're back in the office next week.

Romanos401
Member
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:18 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Romanos401 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:46 am

I thank you a thousand times over Daniel! That would be uh-mazing. Sadly, this same thing is happening to me again in a second piece. Whenever I tweak a hairpin decresc. and a corresponding dynamic marking in the next measure to line up, the staff spacing changes.... so then I go move the other object... and it too changes the staff spacing. (The great irony, of course, is that since the objects are somewhat anchored to their associated notes, when the staff width changes due to one object, the other object moves again.) It is almost comical how difficult it is for these things to line up when they are independent objects and you are trying to force a staff spacing. I'm dealing primarily with keyboard music and one of the things that I really strive for in my scores is to find the most appropriate staff spacing and then try and keep to it at nearly all costs for each system barring some necessity like cross-stave beaming. I also try to get opposing pages to line up perfectly, hence typing in exact values. This is impossible when you are manually tweaking things and your score keeps moving around!

Romanos401
Member
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:18 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Romanos401 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:56 am

Sorry to bump a thread, Daniel, but is there any news on this front? I was engraving a piece just last night and it was happening again... I had spaced everything just right and wanted to inch a hairpin along just a touch and boom! staff spacing changed even though there was space for me to move the object without collision. I suppose I need to minimize some spacing settings in a menu somewhere.

In my particular case, I am doing keyboard music and often try to have very uniform spacing and only tweak certain staves (expand just a touch) when absolutely necessary, that way everything is matching up on opposing pages. I suppose I want to keep things a little tight sometimes and that Dorico's default collision avoidance is what is forcing involuntary (from my end) spacing.

Romanos401
Member
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:18 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Romanos401 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:06 am

Perhaps an alternate solution to a global "freeze / lock layout" would be for Dorico's default behavior to not [subsequently] change the spacing of any stave that has had a manual value set? In terms of design consistency, this would be in keeping with other behaviors in the program that, once manually altered, don't change or engage default behaviors unless the manual property setting is removed.

User avatar
Andre
Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:49 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Andre » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:48 am

I find the respacing of Dorico a little too aggresive sometimes, to be honest. When I have a very well created layout, it only takes a little movement of for example a hairpin for a bar to be moved to the next system. Is there a way to set some kind of limiters for this? Or another example, I adjusted a slur a little and in the previous system, a dynamic text moved up overlapping the staff. Not sure why this needs to be react like this.
My music and tutorials on http://www.andrevanharen.com
iMac 2,8 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB ram, macOS High Sierra.
Sibelius 6.2, Sibelius 7.5, Sibelius 8.5. Cubase 8.5, Logic Pro X. EWQLSO Gold, Kirk Hunter Diamond Orchestra/Concert Strings 2/Concert Brass 2, NotePerformer 2.0 etc etc...

User avatar
Daniel at Steinberg
Moderator
Posts: 5653
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:35 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:53 am

The only way you can guarantee this won't happen at the moment is by disabling the automatic adjustment of vertical spacing on the Vertical Spacing page of Layout Options (an option added in version 1.1). This means that you will need to make any adjustments to the default staff spacing by hand in the first place (so turning the option off will itself cause the gaps to revert back to their defaults), but you can also be sure that Dorico won't then move staves and systems around on its own later on.

User avatar
Andre
Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:49 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Andre » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:08 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:53 am
The only way you can guarantee this won't happen at the moment is by disabling the automatic adjustment of vertical spacing on the Vertical Spacing page of Layout Options (an option added in version 1.1). This means that you will need to make any adjustments to the default staff spacing by hand in the first place (so turning the option off will itself cause the gaps to revert back to their defaults), but you can also be sure that Dorico won't then move staves and systems around on its own later on.
Thanks, Daniel. I am so used to do the respacing of staves and objects manually after spending years in Sibelius, this works better for me.
My music and tutorials on http://www.andrevanharen.com
iMac 2,8 GHz Intel Core i5, 16 GB ram, macOS High Sierra.
Sibelius 6.2, Sibelius 7.5, Sibelius 8.5. Cubase 8.5, Logic Pro X. EWQLSO Gold, Kirk Hunter Diamond Orchestra/Concert Strings 2/Concert Brass 2, NotePerformer 2.0 etc etc...

Romanos401
Member
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:18 am
Contact:

Re: Freezing layout

Post by Romanos401 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:52 pm

This new option is good to know! Since I end up going in and manually tweaking anyway, this will be perfect for me. Thanks!

Post Reply

Return to “Dorico”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Claude Lapalme, kt-va and 18 guests