Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

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arco
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Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by arco » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:51 am

I have a tied note(s) for several measures with a key change (sharps to flats) during this transition. At the key change, I was thinking of making the tied note smaller and in parentheses, then a (tied) normal note at its enharmonic to continue the tie to the following measures. Has someone the steps or a better solution?
Thanks

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:33 am

We don't have a good way of inserting a small, parenthesised note with an accidental at the moment, but you can fake them up reasonably well using text – see the attached project for some text items you can copy and paste into your score, and then reposition in Engrave mode.

As for showing the tie between the notes with different enharmonic pitches, cut the tie using the scissors tool (shortcut U), then adjust the spelling of the note following the key change, and then select the notes either side of the key change and tie them together with T.
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small-parenthesised-noteheads.dorico.zip
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arco
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by arco » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:51 am

Thanks Daniel. Is there a plan to make an elegant and quick procedure to do this in the future? I have needed to do this a few times over the years.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:45 am

You mean making parenthetical notes to show an enharmonic shift? I hope we will be able to provide a more elegant way of doing that one day, yes.

Romanos401
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Romanos401 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Maybe this is what you were discussing (I'm not quite sure tbh) but there seems to be a glitch in that Dorico will not allow me to tie two notes together with different enharmonic spellings.

If I try to do as you suggested and tie the notes together after putting them in spelled as I desire, Dorico changes the spelling of the second note to match the first. (Clean file from scratch in Dorico)
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Screen Shot 2017-04-21 at 2.54.55 PM.png
Cannot tie enharmonic notes together
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Romanos401
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Romanos401 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm

And I will add one other issue, it will not let you do ties between two different voices. Occasionally (at least in keyboard writing) you need extra voices just for temporary rhythm clarity. But to keep your stems clean you might go back to all notes in a single voice. Suddenly you can't tie things together.

I'm attaching two pics to show my goal-- if I enter it in like the source score (from 1890!) the ties don't work. If I enter it with the C/Eb in the second voice to allow the ties, I cannot change the stem direction to make it look proper.
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Screen Shot 2017-04-21 at 3.19.36 PM.png
entered like source but ties wont carry between voices
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Screen Shot 2017-04-21 at 3.18.08 PM.png
Incorrect (less clear) work around
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LeifG
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by LeifG » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:55 pm

Romanos401, you can make it work by selecting BOTH notes (Cmd-click, if you are on Mac) and press T.
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Skærmbillede 2017-04-21 kl. 22.51.06.png
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Romanos401
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Romanos401 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:02 pm

LeifG wrote:Romanos401, you can make it work by selecting BOTH notes (Cmd-click, if you are on Mac) and press T.
Well, I don't know what happened (I had tried that and it wasn't working. But after restarting the program it worked. Now to get those pesky enharmonic ties to work...

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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by LeifG » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:12 pm

I also can't make it work the way Daniel describes. Trying to tie say D sharp and E flat changes the E flat to a D sharp.
Is this a known bug? It works for Daniel, but at least some of us can't. Maybe it only works with a 1.1 build?
However, I managed to tie two enharmonic notes by putting them in separate voices, so that's a workaround for now.

Derrek
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Derrek » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:33 pm

The best way to tie enharmonically is to put the two notes into separate voices.
ties.png
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Dorico 1.1, Finale (v25.4), GPO, JABB3, GWI
Windows 7 (also Mac Sierra as alternate)
US English Keyboard

Romanos401
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Romanos401 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:13 pm

Derrek wrote:The best way to tie enharmonically is to put the two notes into separate voices.
Thank you for that new trick!

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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by LeifG » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:29 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:33 am
As for showing the tie between the notes with different enharmonic pitches, cut the tie using the scissors tool (shortcut U), then adjust the spelling of the note following the key change, and then select the notes either side of the key change and tie them together with T.
This is still not possible (unless the notes are in different voices). Are there any plans to fix it?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Enharmonic notes, ties, key change

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:41 pm

Yes, there are, but I can't say when this will be addressed.

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