Tucking index?

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Stephen Taylor
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Tucking index?

Post by Stephen Taylor » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:14 pm

In the Properties panel for tuplets (bottom of the screen, scroll right if necessary), there is a thing called Tucking index. I've messed around with it a little, but I've never seen it do anything.

Is this a feature that is yet to be activated?
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:39 am

The 'Tucking index' property is for tuplets, slurs, articulations, and octave lines, and controls the order in which they are tucked relative to each other. Setting e.g. the slur's tucking index to 0 and an octave line that coincides with the slur to index 1 will cause the octave line to be tucked outside the slur.

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Stephen Taylor
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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Stephen Taylor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:58 am

Thanks! That works beautifully, I just didn't understand it. One follow-up question: I see that slurs have a tucking index, but it looks like ties do not. If that's true, would it be possible to give ties a tucking index as well, at some point?

In the short run it doesn't matter - I was able to change the X and Y coordinates of my tuplet numbers, so they fit inside the ties.
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Rob Tuley
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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Rob Tuley » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:04 am

Stephen Taylor wrote:In the short run it doesn't matter - I was able to change the X and Y coordinates of my tuplet numbers, so they fit inside the ties.
I'm completely confused by the idea of "tuplet numbers inside ties" - a picture would be nice to see.

A "tucking index" for a tie doesn't seem to make sense, because ties (almost) always are positioned relative to notes... :?

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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Stephen Taylor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:29 am

This is admittedly a screwy example, I'm doing a motivic reduction for the first movement of Mahler 2. In the first bar, I left the tuplet alone; in the second bar, I dragged the tuplet number up, then adjusted the X position of the "End offset" in Engrave mode.

I have to say, with the color and text formatting options, Dorico is pretty nice for these analytical reductions.
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Rob Tuley
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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Rob Tuley » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:08 am

OK, I wasn't creative enough to guess that you had the stems going in the "wrong" direction as well ;)

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Stephen Taylor
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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Stephen Taylor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:24 am

Yeah, I hadn't even noticed that until I took a picture of it for you! It would just be way too crowded, I think, if the stems were going in the "right" direction.
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:06 pm

We can't easily include anything else in the 'Tucking index' party unless they are positioned along with slurs, tuplets, octave lines, and articulations, which I do not expect anything else will be. That is the most complicated of all of the processors within Dorico, and adding anything else to it would add further complication still.

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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Stephen Taylor » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:54 pm

Thanks Daniel for that peek under the hood - interesting! And sorry for asking the dumb tie question. In this same Mahler file, I ran into another tucking question, with the marcato (housetop) articulation. In the attached picture and file, it would be nice to have the next-to-last marcato mark above the slur, but no matter how I drag stuff around I can't get this to work.

Is this the kind of issue that an additional tucking index might be able to solve eventually? Or if there's another way to get that marcato mark where I want it, I'd be grateful. But it's not that big a deal.
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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Romanos401 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:43 pm

While this isn't a convenient solution, as is always the case with such programs, there are unofficial work-arounds. You could always Shift-X to enter a text item, find the character you need from the SMuFL library online and copy and past it into the text box and convert the format to music text and then you could place it exactly as you want. Sometimes you do what you have to to make it look right even if it isn't the "correct" way to make the program understand it semantically.

Here is the character code you need: U+E4AC https://w3c.github.io/smufl/gitbook/tab ... ation.html

I had to do this same process for a different symbol I wanted and it worked just fine.

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Re: Tucking index?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:25 pm

You could also have the slur connect only the eighth notes (quavers), and then extend it graphically to the quarters (crotchets) at either end in Engrave mode, which will allow you to nudge the articulations as expected. You should still be able to nudge the articulations even when there is a slur present, but this doesn't work properly at the moment, and will be fixed at some point in the future.

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