Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

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fahl5
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Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by fahl5 » Mon May 08, 2017 3:19 pm

Ok what I am asking for is kind of a luxury-feature.

When I remeber right Sibelius has the possibity bot only to jump/transpose one note or a selcted group of notes for a certain intervall but (with another varied shortcut) also to ad an Intervall to the selected note or group of notes which stays in its original place. When it comes to Octaves for instance this makes things quite handsome to write.

Is there perhaps any similar function in Dorico, I just have not found yet or is this maybe another feature-request?
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by Stephen Taylor » Mon May 08, 2017 3:40 pm

In Write mode, under the Write menu select "Add Notes Above or Below." This dialog box is thorough, but it's definitely not as quick as Sibelius, where you can type a number (8 for instance) to add an interval.

You can make your own shortcuts in Dorico, but this is one where someday I would like to see an "official" shortcut for quickly adding intervals above or below.
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by fahl5 » Mon May 08, 2017 4:20 pm

Thank You for that imediate answer. I presumably should try to ad a custom shortcut for it.
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon May 08, 2017 7:54 pm

My idea for building upon this is to add a new popover, probably bound to Shift+I for interval, that would allow you to quickly add intervals above or below the selection by typing e.g. "m3" to add a minor third above, or "3,6" to add a diatonic third and sixth above, or "-2,4,7" to add a diatonic second below, and a diatonic fourth and seventh above. I think this will ultimately be more powerful and even faster than what we devised in Sibelius years ago for adding intervals above or below using the number keys.

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by Stephen Taylor » Mon May 08, 2017 8:00 pm

Wow - that does sound exciting and excellent!
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by Romanos401 » Tue May 09, 2017 10:03 pm

That does sound most excellent.

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by Stephen Taylor » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:57 pm

One quick note on the current "Add Notes Above or Below" dialog: On a Mac, once I've chosen the interval I wish to add, I hit the Return (or Enter) key intending to say "OK", but instead the Return key shifts focus to the same menu box I'm currently in, or shifts focus to the next box.

While eagerly awaiting the shift-I popover Daniel mentions above, I'm wondering, is it possible to change the current dialog box so that hitting Return or Enter says "OK"?
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:13 pm

Those pop-up menus are really buttons with menus attached, which means that they get activated when you hit Return. This would be possible to change, but not imminently. Hit Tab to move the focus elsewhere and then hit Return and you should find that the dialog is confirmed correctly.

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by pianoleo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:57 am

I realise I’m resurrecting an old thread, but here’s an answer for people searching for this problem in future:

Select a group of notes.
Cmd(Ctrl)-C to copy.
Type Q to turn on chords.
Cmd(Ctrl)-V to paste.
Cmd-Opt-arrow (or Ctrl-Alt-arrow) to shift only the notes you’ve just pasted up or down octaves.
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by TopDots » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:23 pm

May I suggest that options for adding invervals can also be described (as it is done in Cubase) by the number of semitones required - plus or minus. It would prevent nomenclature problems (as in the diminished octave discussion elsewhere on the board- I could have got that term slightly wrong-as I've never heard of it before until reading it here). I feel sure the logic of using semitones (as well) is valid. Let's see what others think.

Edit. The note name would be automatically assigned as per the key sig.
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by pianoleo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:41 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 7:54 pm
My idea for building upon this is to add a new popover, probably bound to Shift+I for interval, that would allow you to quickly add intervals above or below the selection by typing e.g. "m3" to add a minor third above, or "3,6" to add a diatonic third and sixth above, or "-2,4,7" to add a diatonic second below, and a diatonic fourth and seventh above. I think this will ultimately be more powerful and even faster than what we devised in Sibelius years ago for adding intervals above or below using the number keys.
TopDots, do you mean pretty much exactly what Daniel (who's basically in charge of Dorico development) said they'd do, in this very thread, in May? ;)
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by Rob Tuley » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:48 pm

TopDots wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:23 pm
May I suggest that options for adding invervals can also be described (as it is done in Cubase) by the number of semitones required - plus or minus. It would prevent nomenclature problems (as in the diminished octave discussion elsewhere on the board- I could have got that term slightly wrong-as I've never heard of it before until reading it here). I feel sure the logic of using semitones (as well) is valid.
Measuring intervals in semitones is obviously "logical", but it's not what is actually done in most musical genres. I certainly can't remember how many semitones there are in a major or minor 6th, because I simply never used that fact in the last 50 years or so writing and playing music! ...
TopDots wrote: The note name would be automatically assigned as per the key sig.
... and I don't have much confidence that software will always "guess right" whether I want to write an augmented 4th or a diminished 5th, either. On its own, the key signature doesn't give enough of a clue. The pitches in an "German 6th" chord are identical to a dominant 7th, but spelling one the same way as the other is just "illitur8" IMO.

Also, how would you input quarter tones (or other non-12-tone-scale intervals) using "semitones" as a measure?

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by LSalgueiro » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:42 pm

Rob Tuley wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:48 pm
TopDots wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:23 pm
May I suggest that options for adding invervals can also be described (as it is done in Cubase) by the number of semitones required - plus or minus. It would prevent nomenclature problems (as in the diminished octave discussion elsewhere on the board- I could have got that term slightly wrong-as I've never heard of it before until reading it here). I feel sure the logic of using semitones (as well) is valid.
Measuring intervals in semitones is obviously "logical", but it's not what is actually done in most musical genres. I certainly can't remember how many semitones there are in a major or minor 6th, because I simply never used that fact in the last 50 years or so writing and playing music! ...
Wow, this must be the first time Rob has said he didn't know something! You should've trained your serialist techniques a bit more, that would've solved the problem!

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by Rob Tuley » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:22 pm

You don't need to know how many semitones make a minor 6th to play serial music. I don't have any great interest in composing more of it!

There are plenty of things that I don't know - but posting "I don't know the answer to that" on a web forum usually isn't of much value to anyone!

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by pianoleo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:39 pm

Rob, I wonder if TopDots is approaching this from a "music tech" point of view, as opposed to a "classically-trained" point of view or a "jazzily-trained" (?!) point of view. At this point I'd better say that I don't mean to cause any offence by categorising anyone as any particular thing, and don't value any kind of training above any other kind.

People that have learnt to do what they do through working with Cubase/Logic are likely quite used to shifting things by a plus or minus number of semitones. People that have learnt through playing an instrument and doing ABRSM theory grades (or similar) are much more likely to think in intervals.
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by Rob Tuley » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:24 pm

Indeed. A good way to learn anything, at a "deep" level, is to use it a lot. It's not necessarily about "training" at all. I've never had any need to "know" how many semitones make a 6th - but of course I can easily work it out by counting on my fingers!

On the other hand, I can easily read or play a keyboard part from a manuscript written in two different C clefs instead of the conventional treble and bass - which I guess most people would struggle with, even if they theoretically "know" what the C clefs mean, simply because they have never done it before.

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by TopDots » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:02 pm

Pianoleo, thank you for the info on Daniel. I look forward to seeing what develops.

Rob, some people are not as experienced as you or may have simply adopted different ways and techniques to their music making. BTW. I’m pleased you can count the number of semitones in a 6th on your fingers but if you ever need to know how many semitones there are from the root to the top of a sharp 11 chord. I’d be more than happy to lend a hand.
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by Rob Tuley » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:57 am

Well, there are only two types of music IMO - good and bad. You can make the good sort any way you like!

But Dorico is a fundamentally notation program, not a sequencer. Different tools for different tasks! Having a good hammer doesn't turn every problem into a nail. In staff notation, you don't need to know how many semitones make a #11 - you just write (or play) the notes!

And if counting semitones is such a good idea, why do you call it a "#11 chord" and not an "18 chord?" :? ;)

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by TopDots » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:02 am

Rob. Sorry you've lost your sense of humour.

Please re-read my post. It was a joke!
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by Derrek » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:17 am

(It didn't sound like a joke.)
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by Rob Tuley » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:50 am

I couldn't really tell whether you were trying to make a joke and failed, or trying to be sarcastic and failed.

Either way, it was just water off a duck's back.

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of n

Post by thiagotiberio » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:35 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 7:54 pm
My idea for building upon this is to add a new popover, probably bound to Shift+I for interval, that would allow you to quickly add intervals above or below the selection by typing...
Daniel, that sounds really great! You have my vote, whatever it's worth. -π

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:09 pm

The new popover has been fully implemented and will be in the next update. If you want to get a peek at it in action, I believe John might show it in this month's Discover Dorico session (which is on Dorico's first birthday on Wednesday this week).

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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by MarcLarcher » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:18 pm

Great! I won't miss that birthday :-)
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Re: Any fast shortcut/option to ad an Octave to a group of notes

Post by thiagotiberio » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:28 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:09 pm
The new popover has been fully implemented and will be in the next update. If you want to get a peek at it in action, I believe John might show it in this month's Discover Dorico session (which is on Dorico's first birthday on Wednesday this week).
FANTASTIC!!! Thanks Daniel & team — and happy birthday, Dorico!

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