Respell all accidentals?

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ryanmcquinn
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Respell all accidentals?

Post by ryanmcquinn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:12 am

Forgive me if I've overlooked this in the forum. I don't see the answer to my question. I have a 10 minute long string piece for 9 strings and I mistakenly used all flats when making it. Now I'm going through note by note, selecting every accidental that is written as a flat and using "respell using note name below" to make them all sharps. I have about about a hundred pages left to do this on and am a bit overwhelmed. Have I missed some sort of "respell all relevant accidentals according to the key signature" action? btw, the key is D, so there is C# and F#, if that matters.Thanks for your thoughts.

LAE
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by LAE » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:11 am

I did not find an answer to this either.

One way to do it, although a bit convoluted, is use xml export and import.

If you export as xml and then open the file in a text editor, you will find that for instance D flat will look like this:

Code: Select all

<step>D</step>
<alter>-1</alter>
If you do a search and replace for that string and replace it with

Code: Select all

<step>C</step>
<alter>+1</alter>
you will change all D flats to C sharps. Save the file and import it. Some things might not have transferred on the xml route, so probably the best way is to copy and paste from your new corrected document into your original.

Hopefully someone comes up with a better solution, but this might work for you.
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fratveno
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by fratveno » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:12 pm

... and if you don't want to fiddle with the xml code itself, Product B (F?), has both native and plug-in options to fix this instantly :)
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bobletteross
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by bobletteross » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:15 pm

What about a find and replace option? One could have options to "replace all" or move to "next occurrence" not unlike some word processing tools.

ryanmcquinn
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by ryanmcquinn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:50 pm

This looks very promising. Thank you both. I googled Product B several ways, but can't find what you're talking about. Pardon my ignorance, but would you mind elaborating please?

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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by fratveno » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:43 pm

Sorry for the bad joke. This is what the competition was referred to in Daniel's blog. I meant Finale. If you go the xml route be warned that Dorico currently exports less items than it imports, so you may have to redo things. If you should want it, you may zip up the file and pm it to me and I will fix it for you...
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ryanmcquinn
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by ryanmcquinn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:59 pm

Oh that's funny. I fixed a lot of it last night, but there is still work to do. I might take you up on that after I reevaluate how much is left compared to what else I may have to redo. Thanks very much for the offer. You are very kind.

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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by ryanmcquinn » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:36 pm

Update:

I edited the xml file in Notepad++ which I downloaded and learned specifically to do this. It worked, except I learned afterward the Dorico doesn't export articulations. This piece has so many articulations. I can't afford to lose them. At least the flats are all visible that they need to be changed. The articulations would really be starting over blind.

So, I manually respelled the thousands of flats into sharps (I know there are thousands because it said so when editing in Notepad++). I did this in the individual part views so I could see better and know I wasn't missing anything. This took about 3 hours. Now, the part views show all sharps, but the full score view still shows all flats. When I export an xml to check, it shows flats. Is there a way to make the full score view reflect all this work I put into the part views, or will I have to spend another three hours doing this manually again? I have done reset appearance and reset position but that did not change anything. Please tell me I'm missing something. Thanks.

Robert Enns
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by Robert Enns » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:11 pm

I would think that if you want changes to be only in the parts, change the parts.
Otherwise change in the score which will also chanhpge the parts.

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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by fratveno » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:53 pm

I'm miles away from D. atm, but my first hunch would be to add a new flow and copy/paste each edited part into a new score...
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ryanmcquinn
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by ryanmcquinn » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:36 pm

I'll bet you're right, Robert Enns. It didn't occur to me that anyone would ever want these to be different, but there are probably lots of circumstances that make this type of hierarchy preferable that I just don't know about. For me, I was able to focus better one part at a time. Imho, this should be in preferences to accomodate every situation.

Fratveno, I will try this tonight. I'll bet you are right. Fingers crossed! Thank you!

ryanmcquinn
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by ryanmcquinn » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:27 pm

I managed to give the new flow idea a shot while heating the grill. I can report that when copying the score from each part view in flow 1 and pasting into the full score view in flow 2, the result is the same. The parts have sharps and the full score view has flats.

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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by ReRei » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:56 pm

Maybe in version 1.1 it will be possible to filter notes of specific pitch in order to change their enharmonic spelling in one go.
I hope so for you.
The Dorico team will know better.

fratveno
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by fratveno » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:49 am

ryanmcquinn wrote:I managed to give the new flow idea a shot while heating the grill. I can report that when copying the score from each part view in flow 1 and pasting into the full score view in flow 2, the result is the same. The parts have sharps and the full score view has flats.
That was a dead end, indeed, sorry :( Tried just about everything imagineable now, but the notes themselves seem to have a pretty stubborn idea about dress code :) If you should decide to continue the xml route after all, apart from the fact that my offer still stands, you could also try to do it in the free MuseScore. Just select all the notes and tap up-arrow twice, followed by down-arrow twice. It will give you all flats. Down-arrow twice followed by up-arrow twice will give you all sharps...
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ryanmcquinn
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by ryanmcquinn » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:58 pm

Thanks again, fratveno. You have been so selfless and kind. I spent about another 3 hrs last night doing them all by hand on the full score view. Thanks for everyone's support and suggestions. Dorico seems to have a lot of cool features. It's the first legitimate notation software I've used, so I don't know what it does differently than others. In case my fresh perspective is helpful to Steinberg, I would recommend Steinberg really focuses on the nuts and bolts in this stage of development. There will be plenty of time to refine the bells and whistles. What would have saved me an entire 8 hr day of work would be an in depth selection system with options galore. Also, being able to choose whether respelling notes in the part view is reflected in the full score would have saved a half day of work. What would make Dorico more appealing to me would be if I felt like I could customize any setting I can think of. I can say this is the main reason I use Reaper as a daw (sorry, just being candid) and that approach will win me over regardless of the developer.

I hope my two cents is helpful and not a nuisance. I look forward to seeing how Dorico develops in days to come.

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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by fratveno » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:50 pm

Reaper!! Love it too ... ! :)
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by jmurphym » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:54 am

I know it's a little late for this specific project, but in case someone comes here like I have looking for an answer:

From another thread, you can select all and hit shift-alt-up, then shift-alt-down, providing that the key signature at the beginning of the selection is what you want. That way, Dorico will respell the notes it is transposing to fit the appropriate key signature.

I just tried it on something that I was writing out in B minor, then decided should be in Bb minor. Dorico decided (oddly) that I really wanted to use A# minor as my key signature, and when I changed the key signature manually it then didn't convert any of the notes or chords to their enharmonic equivalents.

Derrek
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by Derrek » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:28 pm

Select all and use the Transpose option from the Write menu.
transp.png
(23.2 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Rob Tuley
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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by Rob Tuley » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:53 pm

ryanmcquinn wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:36 pm
It didn't occur to me that anyone would ever want these to be different, but there are probably lots of circumstances that make this type of hierarchy preferable that I just don't know about.
For example, if you are using "open" (atonal) key signatures, with a concert-pitch score and parts for transposing instruments. Since you don't have key signatures, you can't automatically simplify the transposed key signatures to 6 or fewer sharps and flats, but you might note like an overdose of double sharps and flats (or even single accidentals like E sharps or F flats) in the parts - except for situations where they are easier to read than the alternative, and an global "engraving rule" can't make that decision for you.

Of course, some people will never need that sort of thing in decades of using notation software - but others might be using it every day.

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Re: Respell all accidentals?

Post by fkretlow » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:01 pm

jmurphym wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:54 am
I know it's a little late for this specific project, but in case someone comes here like I have looking for an answer:

From another thread, you can select all and hit shift-alt-up, then shift-alt-down, providing that the key signature at the beginning of the selection is what you want. That way, Dorico will respell the notes it is transposing to fit the appropriate key signature.
I think my suggestion from that thread doesn't work. I was not in front of Dorico when I posted it, it was just a spontaneous idea. I tried it now and Dorico seems pretty reluctant to respell anything – sorry for the bad lead.
Florian

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