Duplets? in 3/4 time

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kerkenat
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Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by kerkenat » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:29 am

How would I enter this tuplet, in 3/4 time?
duplets.jpg
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kerkenat
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by kerkenat » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:38 am

set note duration to dotted 1/4 note.

Type ";"

Type 2:1.5 [enter]
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kerkenat
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by kerkenat » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:39 am

But the notes produced are dotted 1/4 notes under the duplet.

But they play back correctly.
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Derrek
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Derrek » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:45 am

Type 2:3 in the tuplet popover.
duples.png
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jmatos
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by jmatos » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:12 am

Hopefully they'll create other input options for making tuplets in addition to what's there now.
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Traubitz
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Traubitz » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:15 am

It looks like the OP wants to break a 3/4 measure into 4 beats represented by quarter notes. Probably the best method is to break the measure with 4:3 (which will create a 4 bracket) and then pair each of the duplets pairs with 2:2 bracket, which will put two quarter notes under a "2" bracket. To simplify the notation, the "4" bracket over the 2 brackets can be hidden. The steps would be:
select quarter note
; 4:3
; 2:2
enter the four notes
optionally hide the initial "4" bracket over the measure
4-3.png
with 4:3 bracket
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HTH

Traubitz
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Traubitz » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:21 am

And with the 4:3 Bracket hidden.
4-3Hidden.png
Hidden 4-3 bracket
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Cheers!
-T

kerkenat
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by kerkenat » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:18 pm

OK, that worked. TY

(I am still trying to figure out how to hide the '4' bracket.)

Traubitz wrote:It looks like the OP wants to break a 3/4 measure into 4 beats represented by quarter notes. Probably the best method is to break the measure with 4:3 (which will create a 4 bracket) and then pair each of the duplets pairs with 2:2 bracket, which will put two quarter notes under a "2" bracket. To simplify the notation, the "4" bracket over the 2 brackets can be hidden. The steps would be:
select quarter note
; 4:3
; 2:2
enter the four notes
optionally hide the initial "4" bracket over the measure
4-3.png
HTH
Wish I could trust these words the media keeps feeding me
straight faces, forked tongues, will me to believe.

Quad core Intel, 8GB RAM, Win 10 Pro, Cubase 9, Dorico 1.1 Band-In-A-Box, Yamaha AG06

Traubitz
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Traubitz » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:27 pm

Select the "4" bracket with the mouse when you're not inserting notes (e.g. hit the "Esc" key if you're inserting.)

At the very bottom of the screen, in the middle, there will be a " ^ " that when pressed opens the item properties. There are a whole bunch on controls for the item. Switch off (to the right) the "Number" and "Bracket" property.

To close the properties drawer, just click in the same place at the center-bottom; the control will now be a " v ".
2017-07-03_7-20-15.png
Controls
(39.58 KiB) Not downloaded yet
If the non-printing signpost (the flag that says "4:3") bothers you, you can turn this off as well in write mode by going to the view menu and un-selecting signposts -> tuplets. The signposts are just "handles" to work with non-printing items in your scores, but they can sometimes be annoying when composing.

Cheers.
-T

Waldbaer
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Waldbaer » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:56 pm

I have a similar, but not exactly the same question, maybe somebody can help me either: I want to have ONE duplet consisting of two half notes instead of a dotted half note (3/4 time, too). I thought I'd just enter 2:1.5 into the tuplet popover, but this just gives me a duplet of the length of one half note (bug?). The complicated workaround described above (a hidden quartuplet with two duplets in it) works mostly, but I have not yet succeeded in hiding the rest(s) in the next bar.

Thanks for your help in advance!

EDIT: I found a way: I can nest a 2:2 tuplet of half notes into a 4:3 tuplet of quarters and hide the quartuplet as described. So, for the moment I have a solution but it neither looks good by default (bracket uneven) nor this is a really convenient way of inputting these. If there is an easier way, let me know!

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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Claude Lapalme » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:17 am

Waldbear, could you post a pic? Although the method is correct, I'd like to see where those rest are, and what you mean by uneven brackets.
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Robby Poole » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:32 am

I think in a similar thread it was discussed that the X:1.5 (the 1.5 part, which could also be 2.5, etc.) did not work as initially intended and that this was something on the "to-fix" list. But it was a few months back.

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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Rob Tuley » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:14 am

Something has appeared in the Properties panel but I can't figure out what it is supposed to do. Maybe it's not actually implemented yet.

There is a "Use contracting ratio" property for tuplets. Maybe that will display 4:6 as 2:3, eventually? In that case, you could create a 4:6 tuplet of 8th notes, put two quarter-notes in it, and get 2 or 2:3 displayed in the score - just guessing, really.

I don't think you would ever want to display a ratio like 1:1.5 in the score - that's much too confusing for musicians who can't even count beats!

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:28 am

At the moment, you cannot create the apparently simple notation of two crotchets in a duplet taking up half a bar in 6/8, with a 2 shown as the tuplet number. This is because the ratio for such a tuplet in our current representation, in which both the numerator and the denominator must be expressed in equivalent units, would be 2:1.5. Our representation also requires that the numerator and denominator are also expressed as integers rather than fractions, so you can only express this kind of tuplet as 4 quavers in the time of 3 quavers, in which case you see the number 4 in the tuplet bracket.

Although this is technically correct, there is a convention for what Gould calls the “contracting ratio”, where you can write 2 crotchets:3 quavers without explicitly stating that the numerator is in a different unit than the denominator.

The ‘Use contracting ratio’ property simply halves the numerator value, provided the denominator value is divisible by 2. For our crotchet duplet in 6/8 case, that would therefore show "2".

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Re: Duplets? in 3/4 time

Post by Waldbaer » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:45 am

Thank you all for your answers! The contracting ratio helps out, this at least makes it a little easier. The resulting layout is technically correct, though not nice, I think (I'd prefer the manually adjusted b over the automatic output a):
a
contracted a.JPG
(52.21 KiB) Not downloaded yet
b
contracted b.JPG
(52.25 KiB) Not downloaded yet

The nested Variation I described above results in this uneven bracket:
nested a.JPG
(50.3 KiB) Not downloaded yet
At Steinberg: Maybe you could somehow catch the 2:1.5 manually without changing its integer code base? It's not that seldom...

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