What is missing in Dorico for VSL

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
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MarkSealey
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Re: What is missing in Dorico for VSL

Post by MarkSealey » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:39 pm

VSL VIs are indeed not synthesized but sampled.

I'm a big supporter of VSL instruments.

But if I'm honest I have rarely, if ever, been totally satisfied with the end result… it almost always has a tinge of artificiality, which I know can be improved upon.

The 'professional' examples (e.g. those on the VSL site) are, though, as good as I believe they can be - and I'd be 90% happy to be able to configure my MIR, VEP and VIP etc accordingly.

If anyone's interested in discussing this in the context of Dorico - as we did here for Sibelius - I'd love to join in and help/learn, please!
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Mark Sealey
Dorico 1.1.10/Ivory II/VSL/(Sibelius 8.6) on 'Late 2014' Retina 5K iMac; 4 GHz i7; 32 GB RAM; Sierra, 10.12.6

Rob Tuley
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Re: What is missing in Dorico for VSL

Post by Rob Tuley » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:47 pm

cyril wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:05 am
1) The Vienna Imperial virtual grand piano is a class of its own. The venerable Bösendorfer Imperial 290-755 that our team hosted at the Silent Stage for two months was equipped with the famed piano manufacturer’s CEUS technology (details below), which allowed for the most precise and by far most extensive piano sample recordings ever conducted in the history of music technology. 1,200 recorded samples per key represent a magnitude of sampling detail that has been unthinkable up to now.
1,200 recorded samples per key is completely pointless, IMO. Read about physical instrument modelling, and listen to some Pianoteq demos (played live) to find out why. (Note, the reason is not just that Pianoteq only needs 40Mb of disk space and 0.25Gb of memory, compared with whatever you need to run VI.)

Reading the VI description, I don't see anything about "half pedalling" or the effect of the speed of pedal movement on the tone - both of which Pianoteq can model.

And with the full version of Pianoteq (which admittedly costs more than VI) you can re-voice every note of the piano individually if you want to - and some users do just that, to get the sound they really want!

I listened to the VI demos. Yeah, it sounds something like a Bösendorfer (I've played one often enough to give my opinion about that) - but only "something like", not "exactly like".

cyril
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Re: What is missing in Dorico for VSL

Post by cyril » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:57 pm

Rob Tuley wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:47 pm
cyril wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:05 am
1) The Vienna Imperial virtual grand piano is a class of its own. The venerable Bösendorfer Imperial 290-755 that our team hosted at the Silent Stage for two months was equipped with the famed piano manufacturer’s CEUS technology (details below), which allowed for the most precise and by far most extensive piano sample recordings ever conducted in the history of music technology. 1,200 recorded samples per key represent a magnitude of sampling detail that has been unthinkable up to now.
1,200 recorded samples per key is completely pointless, IMO. Read about physical instrument modelling, and listen to some Pianoteq demos (played live) to find out why. (Note, the reason is not just that Pianoteq only needs 40Mb of disk space and 0.25Gb of memory, compared with whatever you need to run VI.)

Reading the VI description, I don't see anything about "half pedalling" or the effect of the speed of pedal movement on the tone - both of which Pianoteq can model.

And with the full version of Pianoteq (which admittedly costs more than VI) you can re-voice every note of the piano individually if you want to - and some users do just that, to get the sound they really want!

I listened to the VI demos. Yeah, it sounds something like a Bösendorfer (I've played one often enough to give my opinion about that) - but only "something like", not "exactly like".
to do a complete comparaison you need to do a blind test ;) and play it !

You need to change glasses, it says :
The innovative implementation of meticulously recorded pedal-up and pedal-down notes in up to 100 velocities, comprehensive sympathetic resonances, and multiple release samples make the Vienna Imperial the most realistic sampled piano you’ve ever heard.

The samples :
REGULAR
Sustain pedal up
Sustain pedal down
Repetition tones for sustain pedal down
Release samples for various note lengths
SOFT PEDAL (una corda)
Soft pedal (una corda) Sustain Pedal up
Soft pedal (una corda) Sustain Pedal down
Repetition tones for Sustain Pedal down
Release samples for various note lengths
SPECIALS
Sympathetic resonance tones of individual keys (sustain pedal up)
Sympathetic resonance tones of the whole piano (sustain pedal down)


You need :
Sample Amount 69,633
Download File Size 46.8 GB
Installed File Size 46.8 GB
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
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Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
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Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
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Logic X
Dorico 1.1
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD

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