different tempi at the same time

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Maximilian
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different tempi at the same time

Post by Maximilian » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 am

I have a piano piece, where I have in some bars different tempi in the right and left hand. Is this possible with Dorico? If yes, how?
(Attached example is done with Logic)
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:44 am

No, I'm afraid at the moment Dorico cannot handle music with multiple simultaneous tempos. This is planned for the future.

LSalgueiro
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by LSalgueiro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:17 pm

Well, not natively, but you should be able to hack it with tuplets, no?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:00 pm

Yes, you could of course hack it with tuplets and barlines created on each staff using Alt+Return.

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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by paulcopeland » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:48 pm

Forgive me for barging in here.

Daniel wrote

"Yes, you could of course hack it with tuplets and barlines created on each staff using Alt+Return."

I am not quite sure how to do this. I am in write mode for a piano piece which does not have a time signature. How do I get a barline in the treble clef and then at a different spot in the music place a barline in the bass clef?

I have selected a note and tried Alt+Return, but nothing happens.

Thank you for your help.

Paul.

Rob Tuley
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Rob Tuley » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm

You have to create a time signature (with the shift-M) popover, end with Alt-Return not just Return, and then hide the time signature with the Properties panel (Ctrl-8 to open it).

It doesn't seem to work if you try to create an "unmeasured" bar with an X time signature, or just try to insert a bar line on one staff. (I'm not sure whether this is a bug, a feature, or I'm doing it wrong!)

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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by LSalgueiro » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Rob Tuley wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm
You have to create a time signature (with the shift-M) popover, end with Alt-Return not just Return, and then hide the time signature with the Properties panel (Ctrl-8 to open it).

It doesn't seem to work if you try to create an "unmeasured" bar with an X time signature, or just try to insert a bar line on one staff. (I'm not sure whether this is a bug, a feature, or I'm doing it wrong!)
You are absolutely right, that doesn't seem to be able to work. I can imagine it is the case because Dorico interprets "locally" as "for this instrument", whereas the piano is one instrument and not two separate staves, of course. But if time signatures work, one would assume bars should as well.

Maximilian
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Maximilian » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:24 pm

Thank you very much! The workaround worked good for me!

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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by paulcopeland » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:49 am

Thank you for your assistance everyone.

WOW!

Absolutely awesome what Dorico can do for the composer.

Best wishes to you all and to the Dorico team.

LeifG
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by LeifG » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:07 pm

So what time sig do you write in the left hand to make it look like the example I. The OP? I can't figure it out.
And why isn't it possible to enter a bar line on a single staff?

Derrek
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Derrek » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:15 pm

Have you tried adding a barline with the SHIFT+B popover but pressing ALT+RETURN rather than just RETURN to accept the barline on only one staff?
Dorico 1.1, Finale (v25.4), GPO, JABB3, GWI
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Rob Tuley
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Rob Tuley » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:25 pm

You want 7/8 on the top staff and 4/4 on the bottom. Then put an 8:7 tuplet over the whole bar of 7:8 time to fit "8 beats" into it.

You have to think twice about how to translate the text instructions into notation, because the text instruction MM marks etc refer to the notation inside the hidden tuplets!

LeifG
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by LeifG » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:04 pm

Of course! I tried to make it the other way round, which gets pretty complicated. My bad.

Thank you!

LeifG
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by LeifG » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:51 pm

By the way, it seems that when you have different time signatures on each staff, hiding them won't show signposts (so there's apparently no way to find them again). Is this supposed to happen?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:56 pm

No, really each time signature should show a signpost, even if it's local to one instrument.

Rob Tuley
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Rob Tuley » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:31 am

LeifG wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:04 pm
Of course! I tried to make it the other way round
Personally I think the text instruction about the ratio is "the wrong way round" - but it's not my score and presumably the composer disagrees!

LeifG
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by LeifG » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:39 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:56 pm
No, really each time signature should show a signpost, even if it's local to one instrument.
Well, it doesn't in my system, at least. And when reinputting a (global) time signature, it only showed in one system. So there's some kind of bug there.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: different tempi at the same time

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:34 am

No, that's what I mean: it's a little bug-let.

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