text layout bug

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
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CelloG
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text layout bug

Post by CelloG » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:53 am

Hi again,

I found a bug. Youtube video to illustrate:

https://youtu.be/5Vl8sNKlasM

I am trying to use text popover (shift-X) twice on the same note in order to put in fingerings for both notes in the chord. The order is unchangeable, even after setting offsets. It doesn't get saved. As soon as you switch to a different layout, the old one forgets the ordering.

Thanks,
Greg

CelloG
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Re: text layout bug

Post by CelloG » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:56 am

A workaround is I deleted all the text, then selected the low note, shift-X, add the "1" then select the high note, shift-X add "3" Then Dorico displays in the correct order without changing offset

pianoleo
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Re: text layout bug

Post by pianoleo » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:04 am

I don't see this as a bug, at all.
Dorico's fingering module hasn't yet been released, so you're using Shift-X text to do something it's not really designed to do.

Rather than using Shift-X twice, use Shift-X once - you can use shift-Enter to give you a second line. You'll likely need to fiddle with the font spacing options.
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CelloG
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Re: text layout bug

Post by CelloG » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:22 pm

It may not be a bug in your view, but the program allows the user to do something, and then after saving, changes it silently and subtly. That is a usability bug from a programmer's perspective.

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Re: text layout bug

Post by pianoleo » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:32 pm

It's been made clear since day one that layouts are separate in terms of, well, layout.

Shift-X does not know that you're stacking multiple text objects above each other in a specific order. All it knows is that you're attaching two objects to one note.

If you attach your stacked objects as one object they will always display the way you entered them.
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Sibelius user since Sibelius 7 (Acorn, 1997)

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Re: text layout bug

Post by pianoleo » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:35 pm

Apologies - I missed the bit about it shifting in the original layout. My fault entirely. I agree with you about this being weird behaviour. Sorry again!
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Macbook Pro 13" Retina 3.1ghz i7, 8gb RAM; running Sibelius 8.5, Logic Pro X, Dorico 1.1 etc.
Sibelius user since Sibelius 7 (Acorn, 1997)

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: text layout bug

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:46 am

If you want to do this with two separate text items rather than with a single one with a carriage return in it (which I would recommend – if you're not doing that because you want a different amount of line spacing between the rows of fingerings, you can change the leading by editing the paragraph style you're using), then I would recommend disabling collision avoidance for text items on the Text page of Engraving Options, which will make the placement of the text items more stable.

CelloG
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Re: text layout bug

Post by CelloG » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:35 am

ah thanks, I'm devouring all the subtleties these days, nice to learn of another one.

I was attaching the fingerings to individual notes in keeping with the idea that they are semantic (this is the fingering for that note) but if it won't make things any easier, I can go the other route. Thanks, as always. I've never seen responsiveness like this before. You must meditate or something :)

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: text layout bug

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:22 am

The wait for "real" fingering won't be too much longer. Unfortunately it won't be possible to convert existing text items into real fingerings, but hopefully it won't be too onerous to go back through the music adding proper fingerings. And our fingering feature will indeed work on a per-note basis, so your instinct about how to tackle them using text items was right on the money, but unfortunately doesn't really work in practice!

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