Using various sounds within a program

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jamag
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Using various sounds within a program

Post by jamag » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:43 am

I understand that unpitched percussion has not yet been (fully) implemented in Dorico. As I've looked for a workaround, I noticed that the Latin Percussion program (not sure if this exists within Halion Sonic SE, Halion Symphonic Orchestra, or General Midi) has many (maybe most) of the sounds I need. That said, I can't figure out how to assign the various sounds to a staff.

I would have thought, in my ignorance that...

...I could choose Latin Percussion as an instrument, have a staff appear, and choose "pitches" associated with the sound I need (e.g. wind chimes on piano key c6), (but if I choose an instrument that exists within the Latin Percussion program, it seems only that instrument's sound is available to notate for in Writing Mode), or
...I could choose Wind Chimes in the instrument selection dialogue within Setup Mode (but I can't find where "Wind Chimes" or similar is available), or
...I could choose Guiro, for example, which exists within the Latin Percussion program, and then go to the Media Browser editor and change the designated key to that associated with Wind Chimes (but I don't see a work flow for this).

Are all these trails way off base? or is one of them close? ...or is there not trail for this "workaround". :|

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PaulWalmsley
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Re: Using various sounds within a program

Post by PaulWalmsley » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:17 am

Percussion is not currently implemented at all, however we're working hard on it for the next update. In the meantime you won't be able to get any sensible playback without a lot of extra work. We're aiming to have quite flexible playback so that a percussion kit can be played via multiple channels if required.
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jamag
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Re: Using various sounds within a program

Post by jamag » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Thanks for that information! It's at least comforting to know I'm not going nuts...or am I!??? :o

...in any case, I do have a follow up. Is it possible to use other sound libraries that have percussion kits and access those for playback, or, as I suspect, is it the playback implementation of Dorico, itself, that stands in the way right now?

Rob Tuley
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Re: Using various sounds within a program

Post by Rob Tuley » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:56 pm

It's not exactly "the playback implementation of Dorico itself" - its the fact that there is no Dorico playback implementation for untuned percussion!

Whatever library you might want to use, there is no way (yet) to tell Dorico what MIDI note and channel corresponds to each percussion instrument.

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Re: Using various sounds within a program

Post by jamag » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:53 am

Thank you for correcting my language. You put it more precisely than I did, and your statement is what I meant, or at least what I was referring to, in the a previous post ("Percussion is not currently implemented at all").

However, it would seem there is some playback implementation, deliberate or incidental, of untuned percussion since I've notated some, and it has played back in Dorico reliably. I wanted to upload a short video, but I was unable to do that, so I have included a screenshot and a description of what I heard.

The playback was of various untuned percussion sounding. I tried several staves and repeated notes and all seemed to play back reliably. Halion showed "Latin Percussion" in the program list. The result implies that one of the workflows I mentioned earlier in this thread would be useful, that is, write for "Guiro" by using, just for hypothetical example, the note A; for cymbals the note "B", etc. Not sure why I was not able to get to this work flow before; probably user error.

I could write all the untuned percussion on one staff, or I could write all the Guiro part on an A in one staff and all the Cymbals part on B in another staff, then I might try to alter the appearance of the staves to show all pitches on a 1-line staff (but not sure Dorico can do that).
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Last edited by jamag on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PaulWalmsley
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Re: Using various sounds within a program

Post by PaulWalmsley » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:32 am

It is certainly possible to get single-line percussion instruments to play back, however getting them to play back the correct key in the patch is a bit more work. You would have to open Halion Sonic SE and apply a transposition to get to the correct note. However, playback of multi-line staves such as drum kits, multiple tom-toms, woodblocks etc won't work at the moment. It may be possible to get them to play back in a very crude way, but to be honest I think it could lead to a lot of wasted time. Our hope is that when we've got percussion in the next update that percussion will 'just work'. The data model we have for 'kit' or multi-line percussion though is very different to a regular 5 line stave. If you spend a long time creating a 'kit' in this version then it may not be possible to automatically convert it to the new model.
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Re: Using various sounds within a program

Post by jamag » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:07 pm

I don't know why I couldn't get this to work before, but now a very workable workflow is ...working for me.

I wrote for "Guiro".

I typed the letter key for the sound I wanted. (It will take me mapping out what key plays what sound. Does anyone know where Latin Percussion key-to-sound map is online?)

If I want to change the sound, I can go to the piano roll in Play Mode and drag the "colored sound block" to a new key for the sound I want.

Then in setup I can rename the player/instrument to represent the new sound.

I'm going to try this again on a new document to see if I can repeat this workflow reliably or if it was a fluke. Will report back.

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PaulWalmsley
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Re: Using various sounds within a program

Post by PaulWalmsley » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:48 pm

Yes, that is a method that _should_ work for the moment. It should be much simpler once percussion is done in the next update.

For your other question search for 'GM drum map':

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