Spacing-layout question

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
Post Reply
R Pearl
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 1:51 pm
Contact:

Spacing-layout question

Post by R Pearl » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:55 am

Very possible that I am missing something, but I'm having a spacing-layout issue. I understand that Dorico will allow things to spill over onto the next line, and not force a barline at the end of any line. There are a few pitches that bleed over, as can be seen. But why do those few pitches then occupy the entire line? I know that by tinkering with the rastral size, and the note spacing, I can get things right, but this seems like odd default behavior. Why not start another measure on line two?

I don't mind having to make adjustments. But I am puzzled by this. And, I'd be the first to admit that I may be missing something in the setup.

Workflow suggestions always appreciated!download/file.php?mode=view&id=24990
Attachments
Spacing.png
(151.76 KiB) Not downloaded yet

User avatar
MarcLarcher
Member
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:38 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Spacing-layout question

Post by MarcLarcher » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:50 am

Have you tried to change the minimum value in note spacing (layout options)? Not sure it would work here, but worth the try.
Otherwise, I would simply decrease the space size and see what happens (Layout options | Page setup, change the value and Apply)
OS X 10.11.6, macbook pro retina Late 2013
Opera singer (lyric tenor), photographer, sound engineer, XeLaTeX user and a sometimes music engraver
French is my native language

R Pearl
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 1:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Spacing-layout question

Post by R Pearl » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:21 pm

Marc,

Yes, I did that - and it solves the problem. My question is why would this happen in the first place. I realize that the part I uploaded has a lot of activity on the first line, so it spills over to the second. But why would the second line have only two pitches? There is something in the default that doesn't seem right. I don't mind making adjustments, and I understand that Dorico won't "force" the music to fit; but there are several lines, here that are very odd use of the space/spacing.

Thanks for jumping in - as always, your observations are most helpful!

pianoleo
Member
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:17 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Spacing-layout question

Post by pianoleo » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:28 pm

All of the bars that you’d like split automatically are beamed across the whole bar. My guess is that Dorico doesn’t like that. What happens if you break a beam part way through one of those bars? Does Dorico reflow it?

If I’m right, I’d like to suggest that it’s a bit of an edge case and I’d like to Dorico to keep doing things the way it’s currently doing them!
Pianist/accompanist/engraver/arranger
Macbook Pro 13" Retina 3.1ghz i7, 8gb RAM; running Sibelius 8.5, Logic Pro X, Dorico 1.1.10 etc.
Sibelius user since Sibelius 7 (Acorn, 1997)

R Pearl
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 1:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Spacing-layout question

Post by R Pearl » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:20 pm

I tried a different grouping of 6/4 to beam in quarters: same result. (The original has them beamed in groups of 3 quarter notes.) Again, I understand why it spills over to the next line, and that I can fiddle with the note-spacing to make it fit. What I can't work out is why the second line has two pitches, and nothing else. Why not start the next bar immediately?

pianoleo
Member
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:17 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Spacing-layout question

Post by pianoleo » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:07 pm

Can we a see a screenshot with System Break signposts turned on, please? Or are there no manual system breaks at all?
Pianist/accompanist/engraver/arranger
Macbook Pro 13" Retina 3.1ghz i7, 8gb RAM; running Sibelius 8.5, Logic Pro X, Dorico 1.1.10 etc.
Sibelius user since Sibelius 7 (Acorn, 1997)

Derrek
Senior Member
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Spacing-layout question

Post by Derrek » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:30 pm

I think the systems with too much space exist because Dorico seeks whenever possible to break a line at a completed measure. You will notice that when your notes spill over, the system they spill into breaks at a completed measure.

Consider the alternative: a spillover note, a couple of complete measures, then an incomplete measure spilling over into the following system--rinse and repeat. The ends of systems and ends of measures might not coincide for the entire page (or possibly not even at the end of the page/frame).

So although the process looks strange, it seems to be rational. Perhaps your best bet would be to increase the note spacing so the spillover was more evenly distributed and the complete measures following less stretched.
Dorico 1.1.10, Finale (v25.4), GPO, JABB3, GWI
Windows 10 (also Mac Sierra as alternate)
US English Keyboard

R Pearl
Junior Member
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 1:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Spacing-layout question

Post by R Pearl » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:44 pm

Derrek - Ok, that makes sense, and I can see the logic behind the decision.

Pianoleo - No system breaks. I know I can do that, but as you can see, it will soon become laborious...I intentionally left it "as is," realizing I can, of course, make adjustments. It seemed odd that the default solution was as unworkable as it was. I think Derrek is on the right track, as it explains both phenomena.

Post Reply

Return to “Dorico”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bobmusic, JackvL, Thomas Eberth and 13 guests