Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

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DaddyO
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Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by DaddyO » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:17 pm

Has the the new Steinberg Iconica library (working with Orchestral Tools) been developed with Dorico support in mind?

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/v ... %20Players
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by MarcLarcher » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:27 pm

I could not copy the link…
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by DaddyO » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:49 pm

Thanks, Marc
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by cyberkrunk » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:49 pm

A couple of weeks ago in NYC, Daniel mentioned that the folks in Hamburg were working on something big. Daniel, is this what you were hinting about?

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by David Tee » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:17 pm

Just been listening to it. It sounds wonderful - rich and deep - and I think that's a reasonable price. That said, it's still expensive enough to make me read through the reviews. The chances are that I'll probably hold off until Dorico is fully compatible and probably wait for Iconica Opus.

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by k_b » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:27 pm

... it seems like an (quality) equivalent to Vienna Symphonic Library. We can hope for an easy integration with Dorico. And who knows... one day it might be even part of it??
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by dankreider » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:37 pm

I have a number of VST libraries already - Cinematic Strings and Brass, Keyscape for piano, 8dio for solo winds. But if (when) Iconica is natively integrated with Dorico, that would be enough to persuade me, since I'm always keen to get a workable demo "out of the box."

But I don't imagine that compatibility will happen before the introductory price expires.
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:16 am

cyberkrunk, this is indeed what I was alluding to in NYC.

Don't fret too much about the introductory price: it will be a little while before we have proper support for Iconica in Dorico and we can always consider doing a time-limited promotional price at that point to give Dorico users a chance to get on-board then. No promises, but it wouldn't be out of the question.

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by fratveno » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:11 pm

...and when Dorico is ready for Iconica it will also be ready to accomodate NotePerformer fully... Iconica may sound impressive (to some), but it's just yet another sample library without any musical "understanding"... and with the usual set of compromises built in...
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by rodrigoruiz1988 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:50 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:16 am
cyberkrunk, this is indeed what I was alluding to in NYC.

Don't fret too much about the introductory price: it will be a little while before we have proper support for Iconica in Dorico and we can always consider doing a time-limited promotional price at that point to give Dorico users a chance to get on-board then. No promises, but it wouldn't be out of the question.
I realise that's not a promise, but it would be brilliant if that was the case!

The only thing keeping me from buying it now is precisely the Dorico seamless integration. Because of my particular line of work, my end product is always a Score (and Parts), so the audio is only for demo purposes (to show to people in the music business that either don't really read music or don't want to spend the time doing so). So the fact that there could be a high-quality VST integrated into Dorico which could provide high-quality music demos without much effort from the user is really a dream come true.

As always, kudos!

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by Puma0382 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:59 am

I may have missed something, but how about another expansion pack idea - for guitars and other exotic strummed/plucked instruments, from far and wide; baroque/early, all manner of fantastic sounds - and all recorded at the Funkhaus of course...🙂. Maybe for when Dorico properly supports Tablature notation etc...
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by k_b » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:06 pm

Puma0382,

I’d jump onto your idea and would support baroque/early sounds. They don’t exist yet as far as I know..
... and yes, all from the Funkhaus ;-)
is this, by the way, just a marketing synonym, or is it something like Rundfunkhaus Berlin („Haus des Rundfunks“)??
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by HeiPet » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:30 pm

VSL has got Recorders and Historic Winds.

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by k_b » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:23 pm

VSL = Vienna Symphonic Library.
I will try to find an ‘exsample’

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Additional_Win ... ic_Winds_I

actually this sounds rather interesting
thank you HeiPet
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by snakeeyes021 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:35 pm

k_b and others,

Some other lovely early instrument VSTs that I've used recently:

Lute - https://www.cinematique-instruments.com/inst_lute.php

Viol - https://cinesamples.com/product/viola-da-gamba

Theorbo, Renaissance guitar, etc. - http://www.soniccouture.com/en/products ... ollection/



As well as a collection that I thought I'd try despite knowing it's not really aimed at or suited to my and probably many or most in this community's needs but I really wanted to see if I could get the natural trumpets, sackbuts, and cornetti to work for a recent project (spoiler alert: it didn't work out too well...): https://www.bestservice.com/era_ii_medi ... gends.html



So... yes, this area of virtual instruments is underdeveloped, but there's at least a little bit out there! :)
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by dpjackca » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:12 pm

Have watched, with enthusiasm, the Iconica Section tutorials. Such a wonderful sounding library with so many extras included to make one's music sound "live." Just wondering, do the sampled sounds in the library default to wet or dry? I didn't see anything regarding application of "effects" like reverb in any of the tutorials. Probably because that is applied in the individual DAWs.

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by dpjackca » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:27 pm

Another thought. Iconica now offers a 30-day FREE trial period to become acquainted with the new Iconica library. If one downloaded the trial offer and worked with it for 30 days, they would exceed the July 11 deadline for purchase ($699.99 vs. $799.99). Has anyone heard of a reduced price extension for trial period users?
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by DaddyO » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:53 pm

Haven't heard anything like that, and I doubt that such an extension (to users whose trial period extends beyond the deadline for the introductory price) would be generally made on any individual basis. Either they extend the introductory period for all users, or they don't extend it for anyone other than exceptional cases.

That said, my take on the question is not based on any inside information, just past experience with such deadlines.
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by arve.furset » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:26 am

Is there an educational discount on Iconica?

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:08 am

I don't think so: it doesn't appear in the Edu Shop.

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by arve.furset » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:03 am

Thanks.
Bought it. Sounds incredible. Focused and tight, very usable for quick mock-ups. Legato not as flabby as some of my other libraries.
Nice to see high quality libraries like this being custom made for the Halion platform.
VST expression in Cubase/Nuendo works like a charm. (I just changed all articulations from "Direction" to "Attribute" so I can right-click on a note and choose articulations note-by-note.)
Excited to start using Iconica with Dorico Pro 2 as well!

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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by dankreider » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 pm

fratveno wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:11 pm
...and when Dorico is ready for Iconica it will also be ready to accomodate NotePerformer fully... Iconica may sound impressive (to some), but it's just yet another sample library without any musical "understanding"... and with the usual set of compromises built in...
Can you elaborate on this? I’m trying to make sure I understand how it works.

With NotePerformer, I have very little control and I can’t change the samples. Good for people who want an “automatic” mock-up. Usually I want that.

Iconica has superior samples, but it seems I would need to monkey with it to get a sound that seems “real” from an expression perspective. If I use Iconica and just press play, how will it compare to NP?

I have some ability to use sample libraries and CC control, but I want to be able to make mockups with very little work (Ha! Who doesn’t??).

If Iconica requires all the usual massaging, I’d rather use my existing libraries, or stick with NP. But the thought of a sample library “natively” integrating with Dorico is appealing.

I know I could download Iconica trial version and try it myself, but I’d rather not spend the massive amount of time before having an idea of its usefulness.

Thanks.
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by Derrek » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:50 pm

The first step to making Iconica useful in Dorico is to have a set of Expression Maps, and part of this involves the Dorico Team's plans to continue to implement Note Expression and other sophisticated Expression Map-related techniques. This seems the Team's intention, and I look forward to their progress because I look forward to being able to make use of Iconica sounds.
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by dankreider » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:02 pm

I agree, and I’m going to wait for that sort of airtight compatibility until I even consider Iconica. I’m happy to tweak and fiddle with some things, but sample libraries can be a real time-thief.
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Re: Steinberg Iconica and Dorico

Post by fratveno » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:01 pm

dankreider wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 pm
fratveno wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:11 pm
...and when Dorico is ready for Iconica it will also be ready to accomodate NotePerformer fully... Iconica may sound impressive (to some), but it's just yet another sample library without any musical "understanding"... and with the usual set of compromises built in...
Can you elaborate on this? I’m trying to make sure I understand how it works.

With NotePerformer, I have very little control and I can’t change the samples. Good for people who want an “automatic” mock-up. Usually I want that.
NotePerformer cannot really be compared to other sample libraries, because NP also make brave, and generally pretty impressive, attempts at *interpreting* the score musically, according to the classical tradition (with many now requesting a version which does the same for the jazz tradition) It's a sound library AND a good conductor in one package, so to speak.

While (as I understand it) NP uses a tiny percentage of samples, it's basically synthesized sounds, which makes it light on resources. The problem with all these HUGE sampled libraries (Orchestral Tools, Spitfire Audio, VSL, Iconica (as I understand it) etc.etc.etc.) is 1) they are heavy on resources (RAM, Disc real estate and processing power) and 2) they require an enourmous amount of programming/sculpting in order to sound musical, and, as Derrek outlines above, also require that Dorico is fully fleshed out playing-technique-wise...
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