Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by fkretlow »

pianoleo wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:31 pm
edit: Florian was faster.
Something to tell my grandchildren: One time I was faster than pianoleo himself on the Dorico forum. ;-)

(I think I won't mention that it was because I skipped all the crucial little details in my answer...)
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by jjvibes »

I know this is a long thread and maybe someone brought this up, when folks are talking about publishing houses I'm pretty sure some of the major publishers have agreements and deals with MakeMusic for instance. Anyone else hear of this?
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by Derrek »

Aside from pitch-before-duration, the main feature that continues to tether me to Finale is that Dorico is still playing catch-up on audio output. Even though I own NotePerformer (kudos to Arne) and often XML my finale score to Dorico for printing, I still find Finale's Human Playback and Garritan sounds easier to manage than the evolving Dorico playback.

As Dorico continues to improve and forms Expression Map links with Iconica (and more complete maps for Garritan), I may very well depend less and less on Finale for initial input and sound production.

Thank heaven Finale's XML export works as well as it does.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by FredGUnn »

Derrek wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:50 pm
Aside from pitch-before-duration, the main feature that continues to tether me to Finale is that Dorico is still playing catch-up on audio output.
That reminds me of another feature where I think Finale has an advantage for composers. When I'm composing with a MIDI controller (no speakers, no built in sounds) directly into notation software, any time I touch the keyboard I want to hear a piano sound, but when I play the file back of course I want to hear all the correct instrument sounds. This is easy in Finale simply by setting MIDI Thru to whatever channel I've loaded a piano sound. This even works whenever I'm still in the input frame. In Dorico even when I leave the input caret I'm stuck hearing the last instrument I was inputting which is never what I want while composing. Sure there are workarounds with loading an external playback engine, then muting/unmuting Dorico playback sounds, or adding a piano staff to click into any time I want to write, but these all add additional time. It would be nice if Dorico could find a way to approximate the traditional "composing at the piano" approach like Finale can.

It may seem like a trivial thing, but if Dorico is trying to convert Finale composers who work that way, it's a pretty big change in time and composition workflow. At my studio I have a keyboard with sounds (but no speakers) so I use a Mackie passive monitor controller to just switch between computer audio and my keyboard audio with one button as they both are using the same Adam studio monitors. On the road with a MIDI controller, I find Finale's way much preferable.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by FredGUnn »

cparmerlee wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:15 am
Maybe something as "simple" as a cookbook that would help a Finale or Sibelius user quickly get oriented to the Dorico concept. (i.e. "If you have been doing xxx, here's how you go about accomplishing the same thing in Dorico.)
That's a good idea! Scoring Notes and Robert Puff's Of Note have both done similar things with comparing functions in Finale and Sibelius in the past. The Dorico Making Notes blog seems more or less inactive now except for product announcements and the archives of Anthony Hughes 1 minute long videos. Perhaps Steinberg should actively create content to encourage users to switch. Maybe more brief 1 minute videos or blog posts, but aimed directly at Finale (or Sib) users showing if this is how you did something in Finale, here's how you do it in Dorico.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:29 pm
That reminds me of another feature where I think Finale has an advantage for composers. When I'm composing with a MIDI controller (no speakers, no built in sounds) directly into notation software, any time I touch the keyboard I want to hear a piano sound, but when I play the file back of course I want to hear all the correct instrument sounds. This is easy in Finale simply by setting MIDI Thru to whatever channel I've loaded a piano sound. This even works whenever I'm still in the input frame. In Dorico even when I leave the input caret I'm stuck hearing the last instrument I was inputting which is never what I want while composing. Sure there are workarounds with loading an external playback engine, then muting/unmuting Dorico playback sounds, or adding a piano staff to click into any time I want to write, but these all add additional time. It would be nice if Dorico could find a way to approximate the traditional "composing at the piano" approach like Finale can.
You can do this now. Run a stand-alone piano VST instrument alongside Dorico that is listening to your MIDI input, and disable MIDI thru in Dorico's preferences. Then you'll get no sounds echoed by Dorico for notes you play on your keyboard, but you'll still hear a piano sound, and you'll get the full-fat playback experience when playing back.

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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by benwiggy »

cparmerlee wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:15 am
Maybe something as "simple" as a cookbook that would help a Finale or Sibelius user quickly get oriented to the Dorico concept. (i.e. "If you have been doing xxx, here's how you go about accomplishing the same thing in Dorico.)
I did that to a small extent in my article on the Dorico blog, about my experience of coming from Finale. I'd be happy (time permitting) to expand on that.
FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:29 pm
That reminds me of another feature where I think Finale has an advantage for composers. When I'm composing with a MIDI controller (no speakers, no built in sounds) directly into notation software, any time I touch the keyboard I want to hear a piano sound, but when I play the file back of course I want to hear all the correct instrument sounds. This is easy in Finale simply by setting MIDI Thru to whatever channel I've loaded a piano sound.
I use a separate app called DLS-MIDI-Synth from the Mac App Store, which passes MIDI input to MacOS's built-in General MIDI samples. That way, I always have a piano sound at the ready, regardless of what other apps I have running and how they're configured.
jjvibes wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:59 pm
I know this is a long thread and maybe someone brought this up, when folks are talking about publishing houses I'm pretty sure some of the major publishers have agreements and deals with MakeMusic for instance. Anyone else hear of this?
Apart from a discount, I'm not sure what MM could offer; and there's no reason why others couldn't meet the price, all else being equal.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by dankreider »

FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm
Ok, like the OP this is going to be a bit stream of consciousness too...

1) Note input for composition. I'm sure people will want to argue about pitch first vs duration first, but I feel like for composition directly into notation software using duration first is much, much slower.
Good thoughts, Todd. Especially pitch-vs-duration. I’ve tried for the last year to completely switch over, arranging and composing probably six days a week, and I simply can’t get used to it.

Everything else is so superior that I cant go back to Finale. I don’t agree about your perspective on casting off. I’m now quite faster in Dorico than I was in Finale. The biggest reason is that, while Finale is indeed faster at grabbing measures and moving them, Dorico does a better and smarter job overall of casting off. Note Spacing, especially. But composing in Dorico (particularly piano) is still awkward.

I also agree with your clarification that this issue is only for composing, not engraving. If the notes already exist, it’s fine. If I’m doodling... ugh.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by FredGUnn »

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:18 pm
You can do this now. Run a stand-alone piano VST instrument alongside Dorico that is listening to your MIDI input, and disable MIDI thru in Dorico's preferences. Then you'll get no sounds echoed by Dorico for notes you play on your keyboard, but you'll still hear a piano sound, and you'll get the full-fat playback experience when playing back.
Ahh, that's a new setting in 3.0 that I had missed, cool! I just tried it both with Aria and with EW Play and it didn't seem to work though, although I'm not sure this is Dorico's fault. I can obviously hear the piano sound that I loaded, but I can't do MIDI input in Dorico with the standalone player open. Perhaps the standalone devices are monopolizing the MIDI path so Dorico isn't receiving the signal. I'll play around with this some more later this evening.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by FredGUnn »

dankreider wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:52 pm
I don’t agree about your perspective on casting off. I’m now quite faster in Dorico than I was in Finale. The biggest reason is that, while Finale is indeed faster at grabbing measures and moving them, Dorico does a better and smarter job overall of casting off. Note Spacing, especially. But composing in Dorico (particularly piano) is still awkward.
Note spacing is definitely superior in Dorico, without a doubt. I've XMLed several projects over just to take advantage of Dorico's superior spacing. I just meant that Finale's simple click the bar and arrow key to move measures (also Ctrl-M) is a much faster way to do it than Dorico's. I need to get in the habit of just going back to Write mode and Alt-clicking system breaks wherever I want them as that's probably faster than how I generally have been doing it in Engrave.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by cparmerlee »

John Ruggero wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:45 pm
I found page layout to be a nightmare in Dorico and one of the main reasons I was happy to get back to Finale.
I don't know that I'd call it a nightmare. But when using frame breaks, you can very easily get into so very bad situations where Dorico will try to put 100 staves on one page and overlap the staves hopelessly. Some of this may have been cleaned up in V3. I think the worst problems came with deleting frame breaks. It seems to me there were some unpleasant unintended consequences.

If you carefully observe a particular sequence of doing things, it actually works rather well, but I can easily imagine a Finale user being really terrorized the first time a frame break made a real mess of a part.
Last edited by cparmerlee on Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by pianoleo »

Breaks have a "wait for next" property that can either be set manually, from the properties panel, or by using the "Make Into" buttons.
All that the "Make Into" buttons do is place two breaks, and tell the first break (I'll call it A) to wait for the next break (B). If you leave A waiting for another break, and then you delete all the other breaks that follow it, Dorico will keep cramming music in.

This problem isn't hard to avoid once you understand what's going on behind the scenes. It's why, even 22 months after the "Make Into" buttons were added (in Dorico 1.0.10), I shy away from recommending their use.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by benwiggy »

Finale users are used to Locking the measures of every system, but that's not generally necessary in Dorico. Breaks can be used much more sparingly, unless you're trying to achieve some special formatting.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by pianoleo »

...and for that matter, in Dorico the "lock" buttons can have unintended consequences - if you have existing Breaks in place, the "lock" functions can overwrite the existing Breaks.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by Romanos401 »

FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm

1) Note input for composition. I'm sure people will want to argue about pitch first vs duration first, but I feel like for composition directly into notation software using duration first is much, much slower. When inputting an existing pencil score into software, I don't think there's much difference between pitch first vs duration first (and sometimes duration first is clearly faster) but it is 2019 and I have no interest in composing to a pencil score anymore. Using Speedy Entry in Finale, I can remain in the editing frame while I work out what I want to write next on my MIDI keyboard. As soon as I know what I want to write, I can immediately input it by playing the note and hitting the value. I can go back and forth between working out voicings and inputting all without leaving the frame.

With duration first input in Dorico, as soon as I touch the MIDI keyboard with the input caret active it will input notes (obviously). To go back and forth between composing and inputting, I have to constantly be leaving the input caret to compose and then re-starting input to enter notes. In the course of writing a piece I may have to do these additional steps thousands of times in Dorico vs Finale, and that's not to mention the times I forget to leave the caret only to look up and realize I've input a dozen bars of nonsense. To facilitate Dorico input I have keymapped the numpad Enter to stop input and Ctrl-numpad Enter to restart it, but this still is thousands of extra keystrokes and time. Finale of course has the option of duration first input too, it's just Speedy Entry with the CapsLock on. In my 25 years of using Finale I would guess I've only used it duration first less than 0.1% of the time. Pitch first is just faster for composing directly into software IMO.

...


2) Casting off / Page layout. Many of Dorico's best features have to do with layout and they are a huge time saver over Finale, but Finale is clearly superior in casting off IMO...

...In Finale all I have to do is click anywhere in the measure and up arrow will move it to the previous system, and down arrow will move it to the next. Simple and easy. Finale also assumes I want to move the whole measure (which I do 99.99% of the time) and only allows me to split the measure if I have activated it for that measure...

...I would love to see some sort of casting off tool in Engrave mode that would let me just click anywhere in measures to move them up or down systems like I can in Finale. It's simply much faster this way.

Just my $0.02.
This is very interesting… Having converted to Dorico from Sibelius, I never really understood what all of the fuss was about regarding pitch before duration (although I used to use finale years ago, my memory of it has well faded and I wasn’t advanced at the time). Reading your description of the valor of this method however, stopped me in my tracks. The more I think about it, the more it does seem a superior way to go about things… Since you could noodle around on the keyboard without committing any notes to the score and also without leaving note entry mode. Not to mention the fact that if you had a series of chords that were all the same pitches but varying rhythms, you would only have to hold the chord down on the midi keyboard once and then simply press a series of duration values to have all of those cords render in rapid succession. The current method for doing this is much more cumbersome. Choose duration, hit the chord, choose duration, hit the chord, choose duration, hit the chord... very disjointed in a way. The only issue I see here, at least as a keyboardist, is how you would enter large chords when you’re using both hands. Regarding n2, that does sound nice, even if that meant another “sub mode” in engraving mode (like note spacing or frame editing).
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by cparmerlee »

Romanos401 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:53 pm
you could noodle around on the keyboard without committing any notes to the score and also without leaving note entry mode.
I don't have a huge problem with the Dorico method, but I agree with what you are saying, especially when entering chords. I look forward to using the new "caret across several staves" way of entering parallel parts. But with the Dorico method, you must play the chord perfectly the first time. I'm not a great pianist. And even if I were, I might still want to try several voicings before committing to notes. Using the Dorico method, I have to use UNDO a whole lot, and that puts me out of the entry mode, so it becomes a rather tedious process.

In reality, most of the time, I just accept the bad notes (if the rhythms were correct) and then go back and fix the notes. I could avoid all of that if the note-then-duration sequence were available.

Hopefully the Steinberg team is listening carefully here, as this one item seems to be a major objection from the Finale community.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Finale accommodate both modes of entry with their "speedy entry" versus "simple entry"? I never used the "simple entry" because it never seemed simpler to me. I don't see why Dorico couldn't allow either mode.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by pianoleo »

Finale does support both methods. Sibelius also supports both methods, but "pitch before duration" came to Sibelius relatively late in the software's development (by which I mean 2011).
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by Rob Tuley »

cparmerlee wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:11 pm
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Finale accommodate both modes of entry with their "speedy entry" versus "simple entry"? I never used the "simple entry" because it never seemed simpler to me.
Interestingly, as a "mainly Sibelius and occasionally Finale" user I thought "speedy entry" and "simple entry" were named the wrong way round - simple entry was much quicker than the other one for me.

But I can't remember how either of them worked now :)

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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by dankreider »

The basic functionality of speedy entry is that you press and hold the note or chord you wish to enter, and then press the number corresponding to the duration.

Why I love it: because I can “insert” a confirmed note or chord at any point in the noodling process. No need to exit note input to avoid accidentally entering in a string of doodled notes.
Last edited by dankreider on Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pianoleo »

...and then you toggle something (Caps Lock?) when you want to do a long run of notes that are all the same duration.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by adrien »

I remember the first time I tried MuseScore (which was the first notation app I tried) years ago.

I couldn't believe it forced me to specify the duration of the note prior to the pitch. I was very indignant.

So for me anyway pitch first was much more intuitive. It was the way I initially expected to do things. Duration first was clearly a compromise to deal with other issues.

I got used to it though. For me it's 50/50 whether I'm more likely to forget a rhythm when going back over the notes, or forget what melody is in my head when I'm forced to type duration first. This is querty of course, a MIDI keyboard may resolve some of this except I am worse than a lousy keyboard player.

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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by PF Slow »

FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm
Ok, like the OP this is going to be a bit stream of consciousness too. I'm a very experienced Finale user who after 25 years took the plunge, bought Dorico 2.2, and have been more or less using it exclusively since March or so...
Longtime Finale and Encore user, bought the crossgrade to see what the fuss was about. Now I know but decided that 2 was nowhere ready for Prime Time. I'll look at 3 after Catalina comes out.If I can make it work for me, I'll pull the trigger.
cparmerlee wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:15 am
I wonder if others have found themselves in discussions recently with long-time Finale or Sibelius users. How did it go? Any advice?
Too many use what got them through college. If it still does the job, no reason to use anything else. That attitude is very difficult to overcome.
FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm
Yes, I've had a lot, and I've found there are quite a few obstacles to getting folks to switch over. Cost is certainly a big one... Both Finale and Sib are mature products that can handle just about anything, and many of Dorico's best features IMO are features that are very appealing to professional copyists and engravers, but aren't that important to users who use notation software more casually. This makes it a bit of a tough sell to those that are invested in another program already.
Plus the features that make Finale indispensable to show and film arrangers. Producers, choreographers, directors want those cuts and edits onto the player's stands faster than right now! Manipulating space/time hasn't caught up to Broadway and the scoring stage yet but I'll let you tell that to the Director or Music Supervisor.
FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm
First impressions are also important. ... the initial impression of Dorico was that it was a $600 piece of software that couldn't do a lead sheet. It was sort of a joke among those that were even paying attention to its initial release. Obviously chord symbols have been available for a while now, and the implementation of them is even better in Dorico 3, but any Finale or Sib users that dismissed Dorico 1 as unusable will need extra convincing to overturn their first impression of it.
Dorico 1 was paid beta that was rushed to market. Had it been free, many of us would have taken it in stride and then bought D2. I and many others will never be convinced otherwise.
PF Slow wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:09 am
Lastly, until Dorico makes a big push into the education market, it will be no more than a niche product for those in the know.
FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm
I'm on the jazz faculty at a fairly large university in the northeast US that has a Masters program in jazz. None of my students have even heard of Dorico before I mention it. ... Spending $339 for the educational version of Dorico (or any other software) just seems absurd to them, especially when there are free notation programs available. I think Finale, Sib, and Dorico all have a lot of work to do to reach the current generation of undergrads. I'm not sure what the answer is, but any software that costs $300 isn't even going to be considered by many of them.
Finale or Sibelius EDU pricing is $99. Sibelius also has a $9.99 mo. subscription (really—who would buy that?!?!?). If a prof at a university or conservatory requires that scores be sent in a particular format, the app will be available at the school bookstore (so the school gets their cut). Some schools will have a site license that the student can use while in school but loses upon leaving—I bet that the e-Licenser can't cope with that. Anyway, if Yamaha/Steinberg wants to create future customers, that's how it's done. Besides good business sense, it takes into account human nature.
cparmerlee wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:34 am
Can you share the top 3 things that you find lacking in Dorico compared to what you can do in Finale today?
FredGUnn wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:13 pm
For all the time saving features Dorico has, there are two big areas where I feel it is considerably slower than Finale. ...
The whole pitch/duration debate. Finale always did both; Sibelius came late to the game but now has that option as well.

Yep. Software that is slower ... not good for working professionals, students under deadlines or composers who want to spend less time fiddling on their computers and more time creating.

So Dorico 3 promises exactly this. Ok, let's see it.

I may put it off till after Catalina ships. As D2 is impractical for my uses, I'm in no hurry.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by Brian Roland »

Rob Tuley wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:45 pm
If I wanted to built a super converter app, or even a super interactive education app, I wouldn't bother trying to make it compatible with one of Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Capella, etc.

I would base it on PDFs. They have an infinitely higher probability of still being around in 10 or 20 years than a niche-market software weighed app down with decades of technical debt and owned by a company that hasn't made a profit for years.

PDFs have an infinitely higher probability of still being around in 10 or 20 years than even MusicXML, come to that!
If you didn't bother to make it at least able to import them quickly, with a lot of super batch-editing options on the table for correcting issues en-mass, then it's a bomb. Printing the stuff out, using scissors and paste, and scanning it into something like PowerPoint would be easier than trying to re-enter every score already perfectly archived in one of the aforementioned formats.

PDF is a printer language. Displaying stuff for the course is only half the battle. Making it interactive can be done with hot-spots and such on top of any image, but the tools to easily get things in formats conductive to the work flow are still a major manual pain in the rear to work with. Exporting it in one of the many formats course writers often need for mass deployment in the digital age is another major battle.

Virtual classes need a little something 'extra'. Otherwise, you'd might as well go back to traditional classes, print out a work book and sit down at the piano. Might as well go back to doing drill and choreography with onion paper and a light board. Irony is, kids are now graduating from college unable to even HOLD a pencil, let alone use it to do intricate things.

They require bridges to run in sync with and share display space with other applications. They require 'interactive' scores that the user can stop/start/manipulate. They require 'built in assessments'. They require remote collaboration tools. They require meta-tools to catalogue and link them into a larger body of course-work. They need to be mass deployable. They need to be able to talk to a larger LMS to track the assessments of the learner.

The way modern society demands we educate young people has changed profoundly. Universities aren't even allowed to do reading and lab bands/orchestras this day in age for composers to test ideas, and conductors to get in a little practice. It's flat out illegal to use the old tried and true face to face methods. Hence, there's a growing need for virtual options in exploring and practicing the art of composing and arranging.

Hopefully someday we'll start to see more tools develop for building virtual music courses. I'm talking about the ability for students to interact with hot-spots in the score. Change things up and hear the result. Analyze scores from a constructivist perspective (as opposed to just having pre analyzed examples with static multiple choice assessments). I.E. Poke in that you want all the passing tones in a score circled in red, the suspensions in blue, and hearing how those work in the full arrangement, experiment with different voice doubling, changing them to different instruments/voices, etc. Getting an analysis on how difficult a passage would be for a real musician to play (as you don't want to give a level 5 passage to a level 1 player).

Some of the older apps can do alot of that kind of thing....most of us might not know how, but they can sometimes do it. What they don't do, is give us more tools to do a controlled interactive score, nor a one click option to export it in a format that makes sense for deployment in a digital age. They don't join hands with the LMS standards that virtual learning requires. They don't hustle to get the needs of musicians covered in the ever-growing sets of LMS standards.

For these concepts to unfold, there does need to be a playback engine under the hood. I can remember Scorch, in Sibelius world being a good effort to start laying some of the groundwork. Of course it wasn't enough, but it was an effort at least. Sadly, it has been abandoned.

Dorico IS quite good. I just don't believe it's good enough yet to consider all the others 'DEAD'. I don't think it's healthy to go about telling our peers we should all put our eggs into a single basket either.

We grab different tools on a regular basis, to work with different clients, or to serve different sets of needs. We have a lot of pre-existing data to deal with. Just one more example aside from importing the current cross-platform archival standard of musicXML...If you have OCR needs, Dorico isn't ready to meet your challenges. Quite a few my peers still need this......
Last edited by Brian Roland on Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by pianoleo »

Brian, to your last two paragraphs, hear hear!
For better or worse, I’m running the latest version of Sibelius, Finale 25 and three major versions of Dorico, all on my main laptop. It’s not particularly pleasant for me to have to reach for a notation tool other than Dorico, but when a publisher says “dip into project x from the year y, jump to page 94 and revise bar 36”, I need to be able to do that, knowing that page 94 will still look the way that it was previously published.
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Re: Reaching out to our Finale- (and Sibelius-) using friends.

Post by cparmerlee »

adrien wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:45 pm
I got used to it though. For me it's 50/50 ...
Yes, we can adapt. But the point of this thread is to appeal to Finale (and Sibelius) users. It does seem this is a major roadblock for many of those who aren't considering the move seriously at this point. It seems to me that the Steinberg team has dome some amazing things far more complicated than supporting two modes of note entry. I hope they aren't letting a philosophical point keep them from accommodating those who prefer the note-first approach. I hope it is just that other priorities had to come first.

It seems to me this one ought to be a fairly high priority at this stage. I think it would be a big mistake to push this off to V6 or V7.
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