Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by mbira » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:00 am

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Wed May 10, 2017 9:55 am
Hello everyone,

I thought it might be useful to link this KB article on the Forum, as this might negatively affect quite a few users using i7 Extreme and Xeon setups.

Please, see here:
https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... CPU-setups

Kind regards,

[Edit: Specifications of your Intel CPU can be found here: https://ark.intel.com/]

[Edit 2: If you have drop-outs and are using a 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 or 12 core CPU, using the audioengine.properties files won't help in any way, please start trouble-shooting here: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... s-for-DAWs - related articles: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... ASIO-Guard and https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo - if all fails, please contact Support via MySteinberg]
Hi Fabio-can you please clarify something for me:

The article says a way to deal with the issue is to "Limit the amount of cores used by the application's engine". It then mentions two ways. It doesn't mention turning off hyperthreading within Cubase itself.

If I'm using a 7900x CPU (10 core, 20 threads) and turn off hyperthreading in Cubase, does that then mean that I have taken care of this issue?
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Denis van der Velde » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:54 am

This geting to be a very very very very very very very very very very very very ..... Long Posting!

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:40 pm

mbira wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:00 am
Hi Fabio-can you please clarify something for me:

The article says a way to deal with the issue is to "Limit the amount of cores used by the application's engine". It then mentions two ways. It doesn't mention turning off hyperthreading within Cubase itself.

If I'm using a 7900x CPU (10 core, 20 threads) and turn off hyperthreading in Cubase, does that then mean that I have taken care of this issue?
Hello,

you can turn off multi-processing, but you can't turn off hyper-threading from Cubase, that's a hardware feature.

Besides the properties file and turning off HT in the BIOS / UEFI, there is a third option that can't be published in the article - user interested in that should contact support directly.
There is nothing to be done on Mac, though (but if you use a PC with such a config, just drop me a line).

Kind regards,
Fabio Bartolini, Senior Support Representative
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by rezist » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:22 pm

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:40 pm
Besides the properties file and turning off HT in the BIOS / UEFI, there is a third option that can't be published in the article - user interested in that should contact support directly.
Hello,

Are you reffering to registry trick mentioned by Pete Brown on Microsoft forum? Looks like a ball is in Steinberg’s corner now.

How should I contact support directly? Polish distributor doesn’t give a .... about this issue and support. Tried twice to reach em.
Regards.

rezist.com

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:18 pm

Hello,

yes, I was talking about the registry entry - I have just replied to such a question relied from Polish support.

For anyone who contacts support or distributors about this, please mention the exact model of CPU you employ.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by TNM » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:09 pm

ok.. basic question.. if i were to build a 7900x 10 core 20 thread system, can cubase on windows 10 spread load and use all 20 logical cores or NOT? Otherwise there seems to be zero point investing in an x299 system.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:46 am

TNM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:09 pm
ok.. basic question.. if i were to build a 7900x 10 core 20 thread system, can cubase on windows 10 spread load and use all 20 logical cores or NOT? Otherwise there seems to be zero point investing in an x299 system.
I'm not an expert in these matters but what I can tell you is that Cubase is capable of fully loading all 24 cores of my AMD 1920X, given the right kind of project (I'm running Win10). In most real world projects though, the ASIO meter will max out well before all cores are 100% loaded (which is the case with all CPUs I've used, regardless of core count).
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:14 am

TNM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:09 pm
ok.. basic question.. if i were to build a 7900x 10 core 20 thread system, can cubase on windows 10 spread load and use all 20 logical cores or NOT? Otherwise there seems to be zero point investing in an x299 system.
Yes, it can use all 20 cores (up to 32 for the time being), when using the option discussed above.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by J-S-Q » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:19 am

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:14 am
TNM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:09 pm
ok.. basic question.. if i were to build a 7900x 10 core 20 thread system, can cubase on windows 10 spread load and use all 20 logical cores or NOT? Otherwise there seems to be zero point investing in an x299 system.
Yes, it can use all 20 cores (up to 32 for the time being), when using the option discussed above.
Do you mean the registry entry mentioned above Fabio? I have not done this but Cubase can still load all 24 cores of my CPU?
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:57 pm

Yes, the registry entry!
The issue with this MMCSS limitation is not with core usage, but with processing threads needing to run with MMCSS priority that run with lower priority. I suppose it can have an impact on how the cores are used, but not necessarily I think.
It surely affects systems in very different ways: we've seen some literally crawling and others running perfectly fine. I'm pretty sure a key factor is how much (and the kind of) stuff you have going on the 'live path' (monitoring or record-enabled channels).

As to why this happens, it's a bit of 'too many variables to have a clear picture' a bit of 'way too deep for a forum', and a bit of 'completely goes over my head' :shock:

However, our engineers are working on an updated engine design to address this. Clearly the MMCSS limitation remains, but Cubase will better work around it.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by J-S-Q » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:18 am

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:57 pm
Yes, the registry entry!
The issue with this MMCSS limitation is not with core usage, but with processing threads needing to run with MMCSS priority that run with lower priority. I suppose it can have an impact on how the cores are used, but not necessarily I think.
It surely affects systems in very different ways: we've seen some literally crawling and others running perfectly fine. I'm pretty sure a key factor is how much (and the kind of) stuff you have going on the 'live path' (monitoring or record-enabled channels).

As to why this happens, it's a bit of 'too many variables to have a clear picture' a bit of 'way too deep for a forum', and a bit of 'completely goes over my head' :shock:

However, our engineers are working on an updated engine design to address this. Clearly the MMCSS limitation remains, but Cubase will better work around it.
Do you think I should be adding the registry entry with my AMD 1920X (12 physical cores)? My system is performing very well although I would probably say I expected more given the supposed horsepower of this CPU.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:58 am

PM
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by vinark » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:18 pm

Hi Fabio,first thanks for your support here. Can you PM me some info about the registry trick? I don't need it at the moment (only 4 cores and no HT) but I am tweaker by nature and interested what is happening here. And I regularly help other computer audio users too, which might come across this issue.

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by st33l » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:49 pm

Oh Fbio,i also would like a PM for that registry trick. PLZ
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Mauri » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:02 am

vinark wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:18 pm
Hi Fabio,first thanks for your support here. Can you PM me some info about the registry trick? I don't need it at the moment (only 4 cores and no HT) but I am tweaker by nature and interested what is happening here. And I regularly help other computer audio users too, which might come across this issue.

Tweaker here too, could you send me the *tweak* also?

Thanks :).
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:42 pm

Just so everyone knows: we have strict guidelines and Steinberg won't provide the registry entry to those who are not affected and/or have a CPU which is not affected by this limitation.
Also, there is nothing to tweak: the registry entry is completely useless if you don't have a CPU with the specifications at the article.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Dudelstudio » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:24 pm

I am a TR 1950 user. Could you please send me the fix ? I tried to pm you but there is no optipn to do so. I also wrote to the suppprt a while ago but got no answer yet. Thx
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by TNM » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:56 pm

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:14 am
TNM wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:09 pm
ok.. basic question.. if i were to build a 7900x 10 core 20 thread system, can cubase on windows 10 spread load and use all 20 logical cores or NOT? Otherwise there seems to be zero point investing in an x299 system.
Yes, it can use all 20 cores (up to 32 for the time being), when using the option discussed above.
Ok this is good news.. I am actually considering getting the 16 core 7960x and disabling hyperthreading (much better for pro tools) and basically clocking all cores to a permanent 3.8ghz rather than have any fluctuating turbo speeds.

Still not sure if i can deal with FLS issue which is something i've never experienced on mac cause it doesn't exist of course, but maybe just getting rid of UAD altogether would improve that.. I am kind of over UAD anyway and want to go native....

Thanks Fabio.. So there would be no point in waiting for the new AMD threadripper 32 core 64 thread, total waste.

However, I had another interesting idea...

I was thinking,you see, I haven't used windows as my daw since windows XP then i moved to mac and have only tinkered with friends' machines here and there to check out performance... But what about if i were to say get a 64 logical core threadripper 2, Could i forcefully assign say 16c/32 threads to cubase, and the other 16/32 to something like VE PRO? Basically forcing them to use different cores on my system, and effectively being able to use the entire system's power that way? It's an interesting idea.
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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by vinark » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:03 am

If you want to keep your UAD simply running it in Jbridge will fix the FLS issue. I do that cause I have UAD1's which are still32 bit plugins (drivers are 64bit of course)

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Dudelstudio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:26 am

Since the support doesn't answer me fir many weeks and my pm's to fabio sticking in the outbox folder, would any user who got his or her hands on the multicore registry fix be so super kind and send it to me via pm ? I am on a TR 1950x in 32 Thread mode. *thumbs pressing*
Specs : AMD Threadripper 1950, 64gb Ram, W10Pro, C10pro, FF UFX

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Ikarus » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:54 am

I am also interested in buying the new AMD Threadripper with 32 cores when it comes out. Could Threadripper users please share their experiences with the first threadripper and Cubase 9.5?
Thanks,
Wolfgang

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Dudelstudio » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:42 pm

My TR Workstation works pretty well with Cubase besides the multithread issue wich means i have to limit the cores that cubase sees. So for now its using only half its potential.
Even at super low latency i can finish full produktions that wouldnt run below 512 samples buffer on my old workstation. (Intel gulftown 6 Core 12 Threads)
Now i don't have any hickups or sowdowns at 64 buffer. Asioguard on.

Though there are still some Kontakt patches lile the huge pianos that use alot of in engine convolution filters and morphings that can slightly crackle, when releasing the sustain for example after playing giant chords and glissandis. Thereb is no red Asio light when this happens. Semms more like a kontakt bug that has been there forever. Kontakt just doesn't always like super
LL.

Excessive use of Ampsims and reverbs doesn't bother my system at all.

I must add that cubase 9.5 in general increased performance by alot for me. Was suffering major GUI slowdowns in previous versions on my old DAW.

Still waiting patiently for an official fix for Multicore system with more than 12 Threads.

One major flaw ot closer to be problematic and i am talking about that dll limit (fls). Still haven't experienced that though i am trying to use not too many different VST's.
Specs : AMD Threadripper 1950, 64gb Ram, W10Pro, C10pro, FF UFX

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Ikarus » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:12 pm

Thanks Dudelstudio for your reply!
Do you think the multithread update will come from Steinberg or is it a Windows problem?
What´s the dll limit? To how many VSTs is it limited?
Thanks,
Wolfgang

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Dudelstudio » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:46 pm

There is a thread below this one about the dll limit. It's a complciated issue to say the least...
Steinberg and Microsoft already have a fix for the Multithread issue lthough for unknown reasons they both refuse to share it publically.it may cause problems on less than 12 Thread systems is what i read.

Probably they implement it in the next Cubase update.
The Moderator here sais that we could write him a pmnso he can send us the the registry fix but here i am still waiting.

Has anyone received anything ? Can someone share thwir experiences ? Would be nice to know as i spend alot of bucks on my supposedly working DAW.
Specs : AMD Threadripper 1950, 64gb Ram, W10Pro, C10pro, FF UFX

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Re: Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Post by Fabio Bartolini » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:35 am

Been out of office for a while, PM sent to Dudelstudio.
If others didn't manage to get info from Support in the meanwhile, feel free to follow up / ask here or PM.

[EDIT]
Dudelstudio wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:46 pm
Steinberg and Microsoft already have a fix for the Multithread issue lthough for unknown reasons they both refuse to share it publically.
There is a statement from Pete @MS about this here:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... ostcount=5
Pete wrote: Steinberg and other DAW creators who have reached out on this issue have a workaround that can be selectively applied to get around this. It's not published in the wild becuase there are system-wide performance implications to just opening it up to some arbitrary large number, and I don't want the workaround to show up in some tweak app, blindly applied.
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