"Return to zero" key command is no longer available

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xoundboy
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"Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by xoundboy » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:17 pm

Platform: MAC OS 10.11
Cubase Version: Elements 9.5

Steps to reproduce
1. Open the key commands window
2. expand the "Transport" section
3. Look for the "Return to zero" command

Expected
The "Return to zero" command should be listed (as it was previously in version 8

Actual
The "Return to zero" command is no longer present in version 9 or 9.5

Martin.Jirsak
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:51 pm

Hi and welcome,

It has been renamed to Go to Project Start function.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Ott » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:19 pm

Why would they do that?

Why is "Go to Project Start" better than " Return To Zero"?

I'm finding in 9.5 these small details have been changed, interrupting my workflow but with no conceivable benefit to anyone. It's almost like somebody felt the need to make loads of unnecessary changes to justify releasing an update which offers little more than automation curves.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by xoundboy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:58 pm

Thanks Martin. I wonder why Steinberg would change that without then publishing the change somewhere for users to discover. I was googling around for that for quite a while.

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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Romantique Tp » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:52 pm

Ott wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:19 pm
Why would they do that?

Why is "Go to Project Start" better than " Return To Zero"?

I'm finding in 9.5 these small details have been changed, interrupting my workflow but with no conceivable benefit to anyone. It's almost like somebody felt the need to make loads of unnecessary changes to justify releasing an update which offers little more than automation curves.
That's a bunch of nonsense. Are you really so angry over a minuscule change that you wrote that without thinking about it at all?

A better question would be how is "Go to Project Start" WORSE than Return to Zero. Return to Zero was both incorrectly labelled and confusing for an user looking for a key command that takes you back to the beginning of the project. The new name is the one it should have had from the start. It actually describes what the key command does clearly and accurately.
Every time someone says "it must be easy to add/fix", a programmer dies.

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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by alexis » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:21 pm

I think Ott raises a good point:
1) We all develop muscle memory on the computer keyboard

2) As such, it's reasonable to expect any changes Steinberg makes that disrupts this should bring non-trivial enhancements, in terms of functionality, workflow and the like.

3) Similarly, any such Steinberg changes should be well-documented at that time they are released.

I'm not sure Steinberg changing RTZ to "Go To Project Start" does any of that.

If it were the only time Steinberg did that, well c'est la vie. But they seem to have a habit of sprinkling these micro-disruptions randomly into updates, seemingly without valuing continuity of workflow very much.

My two cents.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:29 pm

In any case, the Key Command you assigned to the RTZ in previous Cubase version should work to the Go to Project Start in C9.5 now.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Ott » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:34 pm

Romantique Tp wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:52 pm

That's a bunch of nonsense.
Ok.
Romantique Tp wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:52 pm
Are you really so angry over a minuscule change...
I'm not angry at all. Cruelty to animals makes me angry. Steinberg tinkering around the margins to no discernible improvement, by comparison, is just a minor irritation.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Ott » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:51 pm

alexis wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:21 pm

1) We all develop muscle memory on the computer keyboard
This, precisely. Some of my key commands I've been using for nearly thirty years. I'm not resistant to change as a principle but if you're going to rearrange a set of inputs as complex and as mature as those in Cubase you really need to demonstrate some kind of tangible improvement or leave well alone. The new 'Studio' menu achieves nothing except to momentarily slow me down when I'm in my flow and I just want to reassign an output or disable Eucon again, because it's useless.

2) As such, it's reasonable to expect any changes Steinberg makes that disrupts this should bring non-trivial enhancements, in terms of functionality, workflow and the like.
Yes. Tinkering for the sake of tinkering is just an annoyance.
3) Similarly, any such Steinberg changes should be well-documented at that time they are released.
Again, yes.
If it were the only time Steinberg did that, well c'est la vie. But they seem to have a habit of sprinkling these micro-disruptions randomly into updates, seemingly without valuing continuity of workflow very much.
Making complex electronic music on a complex piece of software is... complex. Each piece might represent 30,000 mouse clicks and button presses and it only works if you're able to navigate with unthinking fluidity. Every extra, unnecessary mouse click is an annoyance. Having to stop and think "Where have they hidden the *knuf* Device Manager??" is disproportionately disruptive.

For example, for years I could make Cubase Return to Zero by tapping the keypad 0 key twice. It was a huge part of my workflow. Want to hear the whole song? "0 0 enter". Then they removed it. It must've taken some effort and programming time to remove it, yet doing so served no discernible purpose. I'm over it now [keypad 3 'Return to..." sorry, I mean 'Go to Project Start'] but it was a facepalm moment at the time.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by -steve- » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:17 pm

Ott wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:51 pm
For example, for years I could make Cubase Return to Zero by tapping the keypad 0 key twice. It was a huge part of my workflow. Want to hear the whole song? "0 0 enter". Then they removed it. It must've taken some effort and programming time to remove it, yet doing so served no discernible purpose. I'm over it now [keypad 3 'Return to..." sorry, I mean 'Go to Project Start'] but it was a facepalm moment at the time.
Could you possibly be mis-remembering that? The default keystroke for "Transport - Stop" is Numpad Zero. Hitting it twice returns Cubase to the last start position, not the project start. The only way that would have taken you back to the project start would be if your had started playback from there. Yes, this is possibly my most used command, and it has worked the same since 1991, if memory serves. (which it might not! ;) :? )

Return to Zero, which was changed in Cubase 8.5 only does one thing, return to zero, aka project start, it doesn't stop playback, or do anything else. The default keystrokes for that are ' , ' and ' numpad . '

As far as muscle memory goes, as Martin posted, the keystroke should not have changed - it should have been inherited by the newer version when it was installed.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Ott » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:18 am

-steve- wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:17 pm
Could you possibly be mis-remembering that? The default keystroke for "Transport - Stop" is Numpad Zero. Hitting it twice returns Cubase to the last start position, not the project start. The only way that would have taken you back to the project start would be if your had started playback from there.
Yes, that's how it works now, but back in the day [I'm talking Atari 1040ST, Cubase Audio and Cubase VST on PC] two dabs on the Numpad Zero took you back to the start, regardless of where you started from. I think it may have been ditched around the change to Cubase SX. Admittedly that was a totally new program, rewritten from the ground up so it was more a case of omission than removal.
Yes, this is possibly my most used command, and it has worked the same since 1991, if memory serves. (which it might not! ;) :? )
I think you maybe mistaken. Around 2003-ish at a guess.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by -steve- » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:55 am

I dug out the manual.

In Cubase VST32 5.1, during playback: The first time you hit the stop command, Cubase stops. The second tap sends the playback cursor to the left locator, and the 3rd tap sends it back to the song start.

This thread started out, not talking about a change in function– just the name of a function, and had the prefs carried over to the newer version no one would have been bothered.

I see the point being made, and I have railed about removed features in the past. But more and more I try to be adaptive, because it seems like that's what the world is demanding.

Now- "Mixer Always on Top"? Don't get me started! :lol:
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Marshall » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:45 am

Yep, that's how it was; the Cubase Audio Falcon manual says (1994) concerning Numeric Keypad and Transport Functions:
"[0] or [Spacebar]
1st time - Stop
2nd time - Go to Left Locator/Go to 1.1.0
3rd time - Goto 1.1.0".

I used to double & triple tap 0/Spacebar all the time...
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Ott » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:25 am

Oh yeah, triple tap. That was it.
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by jmandera » Wed May 01, 2019 11:45 pm

So what is the key for this "Project Start?" I just moved from Pro Tools where I could just hit 'enter' and it would take me to either the beginning of the project (0:00) or to a starting marker. I noticed hitting the comma takes my cursor back to the beginning, but not my view along with it. For instance, if I am 3min in and hit the comma, the song will start over, but I am still looking a the 3min marker. Thanks!
Last edited by jmandera on Wed May 01, 2019 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by -steve- » Wed May 01, 2019 11:48 pm

Key commands are completely configurable. I don't know what the default is for that command, I have it assigen to the Home key. Why not simply look it up in your Key Commands dialog box?
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Re: "Return to zero" key command is no longer available

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Thu May 02, 2019 8:13 am

Hi,

The default KeyCommands are [Num .] and [,].
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