Scales in the Chord Track

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gravnook
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Scales in the Chord Track

Post by gravnook » Fri May 11, 2018 8:06 am

I'm pushing the Chord Track to try to find out its limits. I entered 4 chords that fit within C Spanish Phrygian (the 5th mode of the Harmonic Minor scale): Cm, F#dim(7), Eb, Gm. The scale's a bit fruity, but nothing extreme.

I enabled "Show Scales", and Cubase offered one suggestion - C Blues 1, an 8-Note scale that's not what I'm looking for at all.

I would expect it to be able to handle all the modes of the Harmonic Minor family since it's the next most familiar after Major, but Cubase doesn't seem to recognise the chords as falling within that set of modes.

Is there any way to configure Cubase so that it "understands" that I'm in a Harmonic Minor scale and can therefore interpret its modes more successfully?

(If I reduce the F#dim(7) to a standard dim it at least adds G Harmonic Minor to my options, which is close, but still the wrong mode).

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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by -steve- » Sat May 12, 2018 11:25 pm

Cubase just uses regular music theory to analyze the chords. From the chords in your progression I would also deduce g minor.

You can turn off automatic scales on the Chord Track and select the scales yourself.
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by Stephen57 » Sun May 13, 2018 5:07 am

gravnook wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:06 am
I'm pushing the Chord Track to try to find out its limits. I entered 4 chords that fit within C Spanish Phrygian (the 5th mode of the Harmonic Minor scale): Cm, F#dim(7), Eb, Gm. The scale's a bit fruity, but nothing extreme.

I enabled "Show Scales", and Cubase offered one suggestion - C Blues 1, an 8-Note scale that's not what I'm looking for at all.

I would expect it to be able to handle all the modes of the Harmonic Minor family since it's the next most familiar after Major, but Cubase doesn't seem to recognise the chords as falling within that set of modes.

Is there any way to configure Cubase so that it "understands" that I'm in a Harmonic Minor scale and can therefore interpret its modes more successfully?

(If I reduce the F#dim(7) to a standard dim it at least adds G Harmonic Minor to my options, which is close, but still the wrong mode).
I put up the same chords and Cubase's suggested scale was G Harmonic Minor. No matter, Cubase has a set of scales it knows and there's no way to make a Custom Scale. It's been asked for in the past. You'll find a wide range of scales and any chord can be set to play any of the known scales from any root note you pick. You could, for example, have a C7 Chord, but select an E Diminished Scale for the chord.
Automatic Scales On-Off.png
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by telecode » Fri May 31, 2019 1:07 pm

Stephen57 wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 5:07 am
gravnook wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:06 am
I'm pushing the Chord Track to try to find out its limits. I entered 4 chords that fit within C Spanish Phrygian (the 5th mode of the Harmonic Minor scale): Cm, F#dim(7), Eb, Gm. The scale's a bit fruity, but nothing extreme.

I enabled "Show Scales", and Cubase offered one suggestion - C Blues 1, an 8-Note scale that's not what I'm looking for at all.

I would expect it to be able to handle all the modes of the Harmonic Minor family since it's the next most familiar after Major, but Cubase doesn't seem to recognise the chords as falling within that set of modes.

Is there any way to configure Cubase so that it "understands" that I'm in a Harmonic Minor scale and can therefore interpret its modes more successfully?

(If I reduce the F#dim(7) to a standard dim it at least adds G Harmonic Minor to my options, which is close, but still the wrong mode).
I put up the same chords and Cubase's suggested scale was G Harmonic Minor. No matter, Cubase has a set of scales it knows and there's no way to make a Custom Scale. It's been asked for in the past. You'll find a wide range of scales and any chord can be set to play any of the known scales from any root note you pick. You could, for example, have a C7 Chord, but select an E Diminished Scale for the chord.

Automatic Scales On-Off.png
Hi, is this feature in Pro only or also found in elements/LE/AI?
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by Stephen57 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:16 pm

telecode wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 1:07 pm


Hi, is this feature in Pro only or also found in elements/LE/AI?
I'm not sure? I only know Cubase Pro. The Artist version may offer it, but not the intro versions. There is a feature comparison of the versions on the SB website, but I don't know if this is mentioned. Best might to check the Operating Manuals on-line for comparisons. See link in my signature for "help" with the programs.
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by pumafred » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:46 pm

Stephen57 wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 5:07 am
I put up the same chords and Cubase's suggested scale was G Harmonic Minor. No matter, Cubase has a set of scales it knows and there's no way to make a Custom Scale. It's been asked for in the past. You'll find a wide range of scales and any chord can be set to play any of the known scales from any root note you pick. You could, for example, have a C7 Chord, but select an E Diminished Scale for the chord.
I think Cubase should develop the Chord functions a bit more, now that it got into this matter. I am enjoying the Scaler plugin a lot (https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/ ... 933-Scaler), but, unfortunately, this means almost not using the Cubase functions at all. In fact, moving chord progressions from Scaler as midi into Cubase, and then trying to replicate them in Chord Track.
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by Stephen57 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:44 pm

pumafred wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:46 pm
Stephen57 wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 5:07 am
I put up the same chords and Cubase's suggested scale was G Harmonic Minor. No matter, Cubase has a set of scales it knows and there's no way to make a Custom Scale. It's been asked for in the past. You'll find a wide range of scales and any chord can be set to play any of the known scales from any root note you pick. You could, for example, have a C7 Chord, but select an E Diminished Scale for the chord.
I think Cubase should develop the Chord functions a bit more, now that it got into this matter. I am enjoying the Scaler plugin a lot (https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/ ... 933-Scaler), but, unfortunately, this means almost not using the Cubase functions at all. In fact, moving chord progressions from Scaler as midi into Cubase, and then trying to replicate them in Chord Track.
I've only worked with Scaler slightly, but will most likely get it. I think the two could work together -- forgive this -- harmoniously. Cubase does have Chord Track versions... Scaler has some very good chord progression presets, but the Cubase Chord Assistant also offers some good stuff. Use it all. :-)

BTW, Chord Track has a bug I identified which I think still exists. (I've not checked Ver 10 to see if it still exists but it probably does). If you are using a Transpose Track and a Chord Track and if you are playing a looped MIDI part, tracks that are playing the Chords from the Chord Track (Monitored tracks mode for Chord Track) do not Transpose on the Cycle. You have to do "chords to Midi" to get the Chords in the Cycle loops to Transpose correctly, but that means no more "adaptive voicings" for that track.

Anyway, good luck working it out. Put in a feature request if so minded.
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by -steve- » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:22 pm

Stephen57 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:44 pm
Chord Track has a bug I identified which I think still exists.
If you move the chord 1 tick later, or the transpose event 1 tick earlier, does it work?
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by Stephen57 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:45 pm

-steve- wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:22 pm
Stephen57 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:44 pm
Chord Track has a bug I identified which I think still exists.
If you move the chord 1 tick later, or the transpose event 1 tick earlier, does it work?
Good question. I've not tried that. I'll have a look. It would be great if that worked.
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DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by Stephen57 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:45 pm

Stephen57 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:45 pm
-steve- wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:22 pm
Stephen57 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:44 pm
Chord Track has a bug I identified which I think still exists.
If you move the chord 1 tick later, or the transpose event 1 tick earlier, does it work?
Good question. I've not tried that. I'll have a look. It would be great if that worked.
Steve,

I created a new test project in Ver 10 and the same problem still exists.

I tried your suggestion of offsetting the tracks and, sadly, that didn't work. Basically, the issue is this:

MIDI tracks playing chords from the Chord Track (Monitored Tracks or an individual Track) do no transpose correctly, per the Transpose Track when a cycle repeats. What's odd is that If I stop playback and place the play-head cursor even a fraction of a second before the Transpose Point, the tracks Follow the Transpose. But, if I let the project play normally, the tacks do not Transpose when the cycle repeats. (Bug Benefit: Some interesting sounds result when the parts clash, :lol:).

I hope that's sort of clear. I'll post what I hope will be a succinct, easy to follow, easy to replicate example in the Cubase 10 Issues forum.
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Re: Scales in the Chord Track

Post by Stephen57 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:37 pm

Same issue identified in Cubase Pro 9.5 involving MIDI cycle playback and Transpose exists in Cubase Pro Ver 10 (latest release).

viewtopic.php?f=286&t=161763
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DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
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