Side by side docking of Project & Lower Zone (now Side Zone)

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Side by side docking of Project & Lower Zone (now Side Zone)

Post by djw » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:20 am

With a vertically split "Side Zone" similar to the Lower Zone, piano roll editing and working on the project becomes more comfortable on widescreen displays where vertical space is scarce.

Compared to a horizontal split, you can now see more tracks, more octaves, more lanes. The Side MixConsole can have enough space for the full channel strip. And all tabs can be draggable between Zones.

Project has Side Zone (Key Editor) and Right Zone (Inspector) opened:
Image
(click for full size)


Project has Lower Zone (MixConsole), Side Zone (Key Editor) and Right Zone (Inspector) opened:
Image
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Last edited by djw on Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:18 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by orchetect » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:50 am

+1000 !!

I was actually thinking about this the day I got Cubase 9. The biggest reason I would love a Right Zone editor is because I use Expression Maps extensively, and my MIDI parts often have 4-5 controller lanes PLUS expression map lane visible. Which means vertical space is more important than horizontal space for me.

For example, see screen shot:
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by djw » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:08 am

That mess of lanes is exactly what I'm afraid of rendering the lower zone editor useless.
orchetect wrote:I would love a Right Zone editor
To be clear, this Side Zone should not replace the Right Zone but should be there in addition to it, or so I concluded.

One reason being that then you can dock the inspector panel for the Key Editor right next to it, or maybe a MixConsole meter. or just to see the VST Racks and Mediabay still. And if tab sizes aren't remembered individually, switching from the Editor to the Racks means having the rack view cover half your screen...

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by orchetect » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:13 am

djw wrote:To be clear, this Side Zone should not replace the Right Zone but should be there in addition to it
Exactly. Would also open the door to being able to have the Lower Zone MixConsole and a Right Zone Editor open at the same time, or vice-versa.
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by djw » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:20 am

orchetect wrote:
djw wrote:To be clear, this Side Zone should not replace the Right Zone but should be there in addition to it
Exactly. Would also open the door to being able to have the Lower Zone MixConsole and a Right Zone Editor open at the same time, or vice-versa.
In my mind the Lower, Side (new) and Right Zone can all be open. My mockup when clicked on shows both the Side and Right Zone open. MixConsole in the Lower Zone, Key Editor in the Side Zone, Mediabay/VSTs/Markers what have you in the Right Zone... it could be very efficient.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by raino » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:20 pm

Now that we have zones a very flexible way to handle this would let the user assign what tabs can appear in each zone. So maybe someone wants the List Editor in the Right Zone (it could happen) along with Key Editor & MediaBay. And don't make the assignment exclusive. You might want the Key Editor in both the Right & Lower Zones for different types of work.
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by peAk » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:14 am

+100

This NEEDS to happen ASAP

Zones are cool, but they need this flexibility.

Great feature request
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by noiseboyuk » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:49 am

+1 - definitely a step in the right direction.
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by Hippo » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:02 am

Another+1 from me

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by Jorge Ruiz » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:36 am

+1. I'm sure Steinberg have bigger plans for the "zone concept".
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by Steve Helstrip » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:05 am

+1. Much better solution.
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by profezeus » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:50 pm

+1, Logical evolution of the Zone concept.
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by jose7822 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:11 am

+1000

Really cool idea!
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by djw » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:48 pm

Improvements on this idea I thought of:

The Right Zone should also be able to show the Editor pane so it's right next to it. Imagine just dragging the Editor pane over to it.

The Status/Info lines could contain info on both of the views, also being split up in the middle, so there don't need to be additional bars in the Editor zone.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by Quinn3k3 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:26 am

+1

I hope that the zones evolve to become much more flexible like the dockable windows in Wavelab. I can imagine more types of zones also such as a macro zone and plugin zone. Users could then designate areas where these windows could be docked across their workspace.

I would also like to see tabbed windows when pulling up insert and effects so that you could switch between effects in your chain without closing and re-opening the plugin editor window over and over. This could be expanded to instruments in the mix rack also so if you could jump between and tweak multiple VST instruments without opening and closing the window.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by noiseboyuk » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:26 pm

Quinn3k3 wrote:I can imagine more types of zones also such as a macro zone and plugin zone.
You know, AFAIK not a single DAW developer has approached what for many of us is the single biggest window management issue - plugins, especially instrument plugins. If you're like me, you might have 20 windows open all on top of each other, and the only way to find it quickly is to toggle the window from the Inspector, bringing it to the top. Can't be the most efficient way to work, can it?

Personally I think it needs some really radical out-of-the-box thinking to get something that assists workflow rather than hinders it. Something like a tabbed zone / window that can auto-selects the instrument as you move round the project window. The trick will be resource use - if it didn't have its own sandbox, it would likely be really sluggish for performance. Perhaps an option to keep everything in a RAM cache, for those with the memory, might help.

Anyway, I digress - can't put off the fact that the family are coming over and I need to get tidying. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it.
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by scarlatino » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:40 pm

Yes. Very cool!!

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by jose7822 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:24 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Personally I think it needs some really radical out-of-the-box thinking to get something that assists workflow rather than hinders it. Something like a tabbed zone / window that can auto-selects the instrument as you move round the project window. The trick will be resource use - if it didn't have its own sandbox, it would likely be really sluggish for performance. Perhaps an option to keep everything in a RAM cache, for those with the memory, might help.
Studio One does this as you describe. It's freaking awesome!
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by Winter Rat » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:30 pm

Actually, if my memory serves me well, when we were asking about docked windows we meant possibility to dock any window to any side of the screen.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by mozizo » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:36 pm

jose7822 wrote:
noiseboyuk wrote:
Personally I think it needs some really radical out-of-the-box thinking to get something that assists workflow rather than hinders it. Something like a tabbed zone / window that can auto-selects the instrument as you move round the project window. The trick will be resource use - if it didn't have its own sandbox, it would likely be really sluggish for performance. Perhaps an option to keep everything in a RAM cache, for those with the memory, might help.
Studio One does this as you describe. It's freaking awesome!
i was asking for the same in C8.5 FR forum,and if im not mistaking,one of the mods mention it might be in Next cubase update (C9), well it didn't yet !
anyway i like the studio one way of thinking for practical workflow ideas, i amazed every time, that lot FR request we have here,they make it real fast to their DAW. as if they reading our FR :D
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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by djw » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:36 pm

jose7822 wrote:
noiseboyuk wrote:
Personally I think it needs some really radical out-of-the-box thinking to get something that assists workflow rather than hinders it. Something like a tabbed zone / window that can auto-selects the instrument as you move round the project window. The trick will be resource use - if it didn't have its own sandbox, it would likely be really sluggish for performance. Perhaps an option to keep everything in a RAM cache, for those with the memory, might help.
Studio One does this as you describe. It's freaking awesome!
No idea what you guys are talking about. Studio One doesn't let you dock their mixer or piano roll to the side... That's the subject of this topic, anyway.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by jose7822 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:35 pm

djw wrote:
jose7822 wrote:
noiseboyuk wrote:
Personally I think it needs some really radical out-of-the-box thinking to get something that assists workflow rather than hinders it. Something like a tabbed zone / window that can auto-selects the instrument as you move round the project window. The trick will be resource use - if it didn't have its own sandbox, it would likely be really sluggish for performance. Perhaps an option to keep everything in a RAM cache, for those with the memory, might help.
Studio One does this as you describe. It's freaking awesome!
No idea what you guys are talking about. Studio One doesn't let you dock their mixer or piano roll to the side... That's the subject of this topic, anyway.
Imagine having the tab function of a web browser incorporated into the plugin window in Cubase and being able to switch between the various plugins GUI just like you switch to different browsing windows in your web browser. You can also change from one plugin GUI to another by selecting their respective track. Not only that, but you can also pin a plugin window to a specific GUI while having another plugin window tab to different GUIs (which is useful when you want to do comparisons between EQs on different tracks, etc). It's very well though out.

Apologies for the slight OT. Noiseboyuk mentioned wanting this feature, which he thought no other DAW had but Studio One does :-). It would be nice to have it in Cubase, along with your request (though I feel it wouldn't be as useful in multiscreen setups. Still a great idea!).

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by djw » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:19 pm

I vaguely remember the tabbed thing from Studio One. Wasn't it for plugins in the same chain? Sony (Magix) Vegas also has a system like that. The analogy with web browser tabs would make more sense if plugin GUI sizes didn't vary so wildly. Selecting the track and switching between the VSTi's like how you described is how it works in FL Studio. It's convenienet but I also like the freedom of deciding for myself what opens and closes.

In my opinion these ideas haven't all proven themselves to be better yet, and it's a trap to request every little feature another DAW has without thinking of the big picture.

As for this topic's request, because they already implemented the zone system, it makes sense to me that they should make it as flexible as possible.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by djw » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:02 pm

I revised the mockup to show how the Right Zone shouldn't be replaced and is still useful in the new layout.

Let me know what you think.

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Re: Side by side docking of the Project & Lower Zone [Side Z

Post by jose7822 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:29 pm

As long as it's all optional (you can show/hide both inspectors whenever), then it looks good!

This layout would work great on wide screen monitors :-).
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