Improved Side Chain architecture for using mix bus to trigger stems limiting

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Swi
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Improved Side Chain architecture for using mix bus to trigger stems limiting

Post by Swi » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:00 pm

I want to ask if you could make a "Create Sidechain" anywhere in the signal flow including at a point of insert, so there would be an insert called "Create Sidechain" and this would automatically at that point in the signal flow create a bus named by the channel name, specifically for sidechaining and nothing else, at that point in the signal flow. Then the plugs with sidechaining available in them would have a drop-down menu asking what you what the side chain to listen too and it would be a list of whatever side chains had been created.

Here is why I am asking for this.

Let's say I have 16 to 24 group channels that are being used as stems when I do my final deliveries. These 16 to 24 group channel stems are then going to the final mix bus for my stereo, quad, or surround mix. I want to take the final signal from my mix bus post effects and use it to side chain trigger a limiter on every one of the 16 to 24 group channels stems. The end result would, in theory, be the same as a single limiter on the mix bus so the stems monitored at unity gain would sound exactly like the mix bus assuming the limiter was the only plugin on the mix bus.

In an effort to achieve this I have duplicated all the group stems and duplicated the final mix bus but because the final signal is going back to trigger something that leads into the mix bus the send for the side chain is never available. I've tried audio channels, fx channels group channels and nothing works. Again if there is indeed a fix for this please let me know. Thank you.
swi
Cubase 9.5.10
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Swi
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Re: Improved Side Chain architecture for using mix bus to trigger stems limiting

Post by Swi » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:25 pm

This may seem like a strange request I think this will be more and more common request where our master buss processing needs to be spread out over the stems that we deliver and archive is equal to the master mix. This specific need may even need to be its own "thing" with its own semantic or name, perhaps something that is a simple command after you have chosen all the plugins you want on your mix bus and tweaked them accordingly, a simple command to spread these same plugs over all the group stem channels using the reaction they had on the mix bus. And of course a window where you can continue to edit them if you get notes :) Dare to dream.
swi
Cubase 9.5.10
5960 i7 X99 @4.4GHz Windows 10
32GB ram
RedNet 3 x 4
Motu Midi Express 128 x 3
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Egoadsr
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Re: Improved Side Chain architecture for using mix bus to trigger stems limiting

Post by Egoadsr » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:25 pm

I'm not sure i have totally understand what you are looking for... you want to put a ducking side-chain compressor on all the group stems that goes into the master bus ? i don't really see why you want to do this...
And yes in a way, if it's what i have understand, this configuration is basically a weird feedback loop... It's like saying that we want to lower the master level when it's high and increase it when it's weak but based on what already played, if the source signal is affected by this same signal, you'll have chaotic result, and Cubase not allow it, imagine that a sample goes out, it activate the side-chain on the same signal, but the problem is that the computer will look at the base sample and lower the volume, but now, the base sample is not the same, so it will not activate the side-chain, and you'll not obtain the same result at each feedback loop, a sound that is already goes out from the speakers cannot interact with itself in the past... it's hard to explain, and maybe i do not understand your problem, or maybe it will help you :)
Last edited by Egoadsr on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Cubase v9.5 + some plugs +a soundcard + midi controllers + little guitars + a pair of M-audio BX5d3 + some good headphones + a good laptop to run Cubase ( this mythological sound software that make me believing when i was young it was an excalibur made by the gods of sound ).

Egoadsr
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Re: Improved Side Chain architecture for using mix bus to trigger stems limiting

Post by Egoadsr » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:27 pm

One usefull side-chain trick is to send a snare in an FX track, put a reverb, then a side-chain after the reverb triggered by the dry snare...
The result between a limiter as an insert, and a side-chain triggered limiter is totally different...
But i do not understand if your "stems" are tracks, or finished song, does those stems are mixed in the final mix, or just play individually over the time ?
But believe me, a side-chain source from the master bus, triggering something in the mix is not allowed, and physically impossible :)
One another trick is to duplicate the master bus, put an high pass on one copy and send this high passed signal only in the master bus compressor as a side-chain. This trick is absolutely usefull when using SSL Bus Comp, with a track that have a lot of bass ( kick, bass... ), and sometimes it's not usefull, it's necessary ;)
Cubase v9.5 + some plugs +a soundcard + midi controllers + little guitars + a pair of M-audio BX5d3 + some good headphones + a good laptop to run Cubase ( this mythological sound software that make me believing when i was young it was an excalibur made by the gods of sound ).

Swi
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:39 pm
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Re: Improved Side Chain architecture for using mix bus to trigger stems limiting

Post by Swi » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:16 am

I understand that this is strange. And that it is against the signal flow. But the end result would be stems that are processed individually to match what the end product after master bus processing is. So when I deliver stems to a mixer, all the stems at unity gain would equal my master bus (processed) mix. I know it's kind of "not possible" because it's processing upstream. It's just a concept that would be useful if it could be figured out.
swi
Cubase 9.5.10
5960 i7 X99 @4.4GHz Windows 10
32GB ram
RedNet 3 x 4
Motu Midi Express 128 x 3
4 Windows 10 VEP slave / servers

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