Request for improvement to MIDI step input

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Deus
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Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Deus » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:21 pm

I've been using Cubase Artist 9.5 for a very short time and I must say I quite love it, but there is one thing, just one thing, that litterally kills me.

Please add a feature to Cubase in Step MIDI input.
While you hold a key, and press right cursor multiple times, when you release the key, the note is written to the length of how much you advanced the midi input cursor.

It doesn't sound like much, but you have no idea how this would change writing music for me... You could basically write partitions on the fly with your MIDI keyboard with this...

Without, you have to edit each note that you want to be superior to the quantize value you set, which is extremely tiresome.

I would love that you add this to Step MIDI input's behaviour.



If you really don't want to, I could release a plugin for Cubase, I'm a software programmer, is there an SDK for plugins ?
Last edited by Deus on Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

-steve-
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Re: Please Steinberg I beg you...

Post by -steve- » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:48 am

What about changing the quantize value before entering the note?
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Re: Please Steinberg I beg you...

Post by Deus » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:53 am

Thats not really it, i already do this, but it is very tiresome compared to the potential of setting the quantize to a low value, and do some "input advance" (if I can say so) to set the note lentgh, what I also do is exactly this, but entering just the notes where they are supposed to start, and then make them larger, but again, it is not very intuitive.

Being able to set note length dynamically with midi cursor input advance have the potential to be so much more... Again, I can actually create a plugin or something if it is possible, I've already thought of a C++ algorythm to do that, If I can access note parameters, and get the event "note pressed" during midi input, pressing the right key will increase a counter, then when the event "note released" is triggered, the note is quantize x the value of the counter.

Of course a very talented musician with the ability to compose on the fly and play good, that owns very good hardware with very low latency doesn't need this to write music, he just records and maybe adjust errors here and there afterwards, it's much faster, but not everybody is like this, or have very low latency capable hardware (though getting actual low latency nowadays is much easier).

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Re: Please Steinberg I beg you...

Post by Deus » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:09 pm

I just realized my thread has a stupid name and will never be seen by people looking for the same thing..

By the way I upgraded from a crappy laptop to an actual workstation with a ryzen processor, no latency anymore and recording works miles better with no notes out of place or anything.

Still, it is something to be considered, for great editing, but I wonder, by default, MIDI input isn't even shown in the editor, you have to manually enable it, why so, has it been depreciated for something else that works better ?

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Re: Please Steinberg I beg you...

Post by -steve- » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:24 pm

Do you see the pencil icon on your original post? You can edit the title via that.
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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Deus » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:31 pm

yes thanks, I thought it only changes the name of the subject in the reply

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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by dmbaer » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:00 pm

I *love* this idea. As an alternative, maybe be able to use MIDI CC 64 (sustain) to accomplish the same thing. In step entry mode, I can't imagine sustain being otherwise of any use. It could work like this: if the sustain pedal is depressed, consecutive notes would simply be joined together. CC 64 would be ignored for non-consecutive notes.

Extending this idea: what about a MIDI-keyboard-based mechanism for skipping a note? Hopping between input via the computer keyboard and the MIDI keyboard is error prone and less than optimally efficient. Once you go into step entry mode, it would be great to be able to stay at the MIDI keyboard until the current sequence is completed. Maybe there could be an option to ignore step entry above/below a certain MIDI note - use of that note would cause the step-entry position to advance but would not record the event itself.
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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Deus » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:13 am

I have though of many advanced features like the ones you are describing, but I thought I would scare the dev team ! So I just suggested the note lengh thing to see if we can hope for an improvement ^^ for example if you want to write a chord of 3 notes, if all 3 notes begins and ends at the same parts, you can "write" them all at once, but if some of them finishes sooner, you have to "write" each note individually to the lengh you want.
If we can get that, that would be such an improvement already !

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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by dmbaer » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:05 am

dmbaer wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:00 pm
I *love* this idea. As an alternative, maybe be able to use MIDI CC 64 (sustain) to accomplish the same thing. In step entry mode, I can't imagine sustain being otherwise of any use. It could work like this: if the sustain pedal is depressed, consecutive notes would simply be joined together. CC 64 would be ignored for non-consecutive notes.

Extending this idea: what about a MIDI-keyboard-based mechanism for skipping a note? Hopping between input via the computer keyboard and the MIDI keyboard is error prone and less than optimally efficient. Once you go into step entry mode, it would be great to be able to stay at the MIDI keyboard until the current sequence is completed. Maybe there could be an option to ignore step entry above/below a certain MIDI note - use of that note would cause the step-entry position to advance but would not record the event itself.
I has occurred to me since writing the above that an even cleaner way exists. Hold down the sustain pedal and play one or more notes. Any of those notes that are the same as in the previous step will cause the previous step's notes to be extended into the current step. Press and release the sustain pedal with no notes played simply advances the position to the next step. This would immediately be very easy to learn and use effectively.
David Baer

Hardware: Intel I7 4-core hyper-threaded; 8M RAM; Dual hard drives; Roland Quad Capture
OS: Win 7 64-bit
DAW: Cubase 7.5 64-bit (and SONAR X2 64-bit)
Synths and effects: More than I care to contemplate, but only the 64-bit stuff ever gets used

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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Deus » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:56 am

dmbaer wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:05 am
dmbaer wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:00 pm
I *love* this idea. As an alternative, maybe be able to use MIDI CC 64 (sustain) to accomplish the same thing. In step entry mode, I can't imagine sustain being otherwise of any use. It could work like this: if the sustain pedal is depressed, consecutive notes would simply be joined together. CC 64 would be ignored for non-consecutive notes.

Extending this idea: what about a MIDI-keyboard-based mechanism for skipping a note? Hopping between input via the computer keyboard and the MIDI keyboard is error prone and less than optimally efficient. Once you go into step entry mode, it would be great to be able to stay at the MIDI keyboard until the current sequence is completed. Maybe there could be an option to ignore step entry above/below a certain MIDI note - use of that note would cause the step-entry position to advance but would not record the event itself.
I has occurred to me since writing the above that an even cleaner way exists. Hold down the sustain pedal and play one or more notes. Any of those notes that are the same as in the previous step will cause the previous step's notes to be extended into the current step. Press and release the sustain pedal with no notes played simply advances the position to the next step. This would immediately be very easy to learn and use effectively.
mm that's another way to look at it, it requires more "hardware" but definitely not a bad solution.

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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Stephen57 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:25 am

Voyetra Sequencer+ Pro for Dos had a killer step-entry mode.

Preserve Rhythm
New steps entered followed the pattern of the first line's rhythm. It just read along the track and the next step was entered at the next point a note was found. Rests were jumped over, so to speak.

In the Cubase Improved Dreamworld version of that, the new steps entered would follow the pattern of the notes selected in a measure, a range of measures or an entire track. But, even an old fashioned "Preserve Rhythm Step Entry" would be a very useful tool -- it always was.
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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by raino » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:02 pm

The Nudge Pallet (which can be assigned to Key Commands) lets you move both the start and end of the notes separately or together.
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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Deus » Tue May 28, 2019 9:16 am

I wonder if there were any updates / improvements on this, as I didn't reinstall Cubase yet.

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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Stephen57 » Tue May 28, 2019 7:56 pm

raino wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:02 pm
The Nudge Pallet (which can be assigned to Key Commands) lets you move both the start and end of the notes separately or together.
IMHO, for Step or Score editing, the Nudge Key Commands are some of the most useful in the set.

The one thing I wish we had for Step or Score entry is what Voyetra called "Edit Existing" and it may have also had "Replace Existing" (can't remember).

"Edit Existing" was a step entry mode that preserved the rhythm of a part. This worked by advancing the Cusor by pressing the Sustain Peddle, CC advanced he cursor from exiting note to existing note, (shift-plus Sustain moved it back). This allowed the user to change the note's properties (pitch, velocity) or add additional notes.

I feel like I don't have the best work flow for Cubase's Step Entry. Maybe I'm missing something about how to best use it? I'm trying use Score Editor more. I realize it's a whole module of the program I've not studied thoroughly enough.

I think ideally I'd like an i-pad or screen app with stylus for writing music in a more traditional way, but with Cubase's Agents there helping with Chords, etc.

Anyway, +1 for better Step Modes
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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by -steve- » Tue May 28, 2019 11:52 pm

Stephen57 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:56 pm
The one thing I wish we had for Step or Score entry is what Voyetra called "Edit Existing" and it may have also had "Replace Existing" (can't remember).
Turn on MIDI input (next to the Step Input icon).
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Re: Request for improvement to MIDI step input

Post by Stephen57 » Wed May 29, 2019 6:58 pm

-steve- wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:52 pm
Stephen57 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:56 pm
The one thing I wish we had for Step or Score entry is what Voyetra called "Edit Existing" and it may have also had "Replace Existing" (can't remember).
Turn on MIDI input (next to the Step Input icon).
Thanks, Steve. I've not spent time learning how that works. I'll give it some real attention.

Any further tips or videos that you or anyone reading may suggest (beyond the basics) would be appreciated.
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

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