Issue forum streamlined

Use this forum for an overview of issues and to report new ones.
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Issue forum streamlined

Post by Matthias Quellmann » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:11 pm

Hi all,

We have decided to reduce the complexity of this dedicated issue forum. We will continue to collect your bug reports, but there will be no managed "collected" or "closed" sub-forums anymore.

The process to align these forums, the beta forum reports, our internal development database and documents like the version history needed to be streamlined in order to ensure an efficient support service to our customers.

From now on bug reports will directly be transferred into our internal developer database (when confirmed) and "solved issues" will only be communicated in the dedicated version history document that we are releasing with the maintenance updates.
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by alexis » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:48 am

Two real-world scenarios:

1) Prospective buyer doing their pre-purchase due diligence - they review the bug list, and are wondering which bugs are real, vs. (for example) unhinged rantings of users who don't know they have system-specific difficulties.

2) Current user with difficulty - they'd like to know if their problem is due to a Steinberg-confirmed bug, or whether it's worth their time and effort to continue to troubleshoot.

These are common scenarios, the old system helped them come to conclusions. How does this new arrangement help them?

In what situation is this new arrangement better for users?
Alexis

-Cubase "Safe Start Mode" (CTRL-ALT-SHIFT)
-Get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here,
-Replacing freely-timed section into a variable tempo project

Cubase 9.0.20; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W10 Pro 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo; Jamstix 3.6; RevoicePro3.3; EZDrummer 2

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Pablo1980 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:49 am

Matthias Quellmann wrote:
From now on bug reports will directly be transferred into our internal developer database (when confirmed) and "solved issues" will only be communicated in the dedicated version history document that we are releasing with the maintenance updates.

You never release a list of bug fixes from x.5 to x.0 versions, so we have no way of learning what has been fixed, And have to try the new version or wait for user feedback in this forum.

I think is a bad move....or you could start making that list from x.5 to x.0 ....it shouldn't be too hard isn't it?
Film Composer - Argentina

Intel 3930k - Gigabyte x79s-up5 wifi - 32gb ram - Motu 24ao - Steinberg MR816x (2)
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Matthias Quellmann » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:18 pm

In the old system we had a long list of bug reports, a short list of collected issues and a very short list of closed issues.
Every entry in the bug reports forum had to be approved by one of our team members in order avoid any kind of issues that are not caused by the software. The problem was that the process to go through all the bug reports in order to reproduce and validate them, check if they have already been reported by other users (beta tester, internal, etc), enter them in the developer tool and move them to the collected issues subforum was just to time consuming. As a result the issues forum was just not representing the reality since a lot of the issues in the reported bugs forum were already in the developer database, collected issues were already fixed or some of the collected bugs could just not be fixed at all. The situation was just insufficient for both the customers and Steinberg.

We could have made the decision to emphasise more on this issues forum and have a dedicated support agent and quality assurance engineer constantly work in here. But in this case both of them would not be able to improve the regular support to our customers nor the quality of our products.

We really appreciate your reports and we definitely scan this forum and use your reports to improve our software. The entries are still approved by our team members, but we won't actively manage this forum anymore since we think that we can use our resources more efficiently if we focus on the direct support via the ticketing system and our quality assurance and testing processes.
Matthias Quellmann - Senior Marketing Manager
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Pablo1980 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:18 pm

Hi Matthias, I still don´t believe that this move is beneficial. The long standing bugs in Cubase lead me to think that there is something deeply flawed about the way Steinberg adresses bug fixing. If you only rely on ticketing system, and the issues forum becomes irrelevant an user may think that is doing something wrong and not report a bug or confirm a reported one.

I can´t use the ticketing system because you refer me to the local distributor in my country, do you think that is streamlined?

Also, I want to point out again, the lack of a list of bugs fixed in the x.0 releases. So, we get a lot of forum members (here and other places online) asking "has the xxxx issue been fixed in x.0 release"? And we wait for other users to test and confirm. Again, do you think that this procedure is streamlined or easy for your customers?

These questions are not an attack (sorry if it looks that way), they are geniune concern about the comunication, or lack of, between Steinberg and its customers. An issue that we have been raising for a long time now.

Now you will be not be managing the best way users have to look if the bugs that hinder they workflow are being looked upon or not. I would dearly welcome a dedicated support agent in the forum, so we can have a conversation about the problems with cubase (for example, disable tracks still keeps forgeting assignments, after a lot of updates).

Thanks
Film Composer - Argentina

Intel 3930k - Gigabyte x79s-up5 wifi - 32gb ram - Motu 24ao - Steinberg MR816x (2)
Windows 10 64bit - Cubase 9.5 Pro - Vepro 6

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by alexis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:31 am

Matthias Quellmann wrote:...The entries are still approved by our team members ...
With everything getting thrown into one subforum without much organization, the momentum will tend towards confusion. So, it would be really helpful if when they do, they perhaps:

1) Don't lock the thread, so as to allow others to bring more information to the OP.
2) If the reported possible bug has already been reported in another thread, the Steinberg team member consolidate them, so the discussion isn't spread across multiple threads.
3) Delete the bug report when it is fixed in a future update, or instead possibly append a "Solved in update X.Y".




Thank you for your consideration.
Alexis

-Cubase "Safe Start Mode" (CTRL-ALT-SHIFT)
-Get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here,
-Replacing freely-timed section into a variable tempo project

Cubase 9.0.20; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W10 Pro 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo; Jamstix 3.6; RevoicePro3.3; EZDrummer 2

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by In_Stereo » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:01 pm

What exactly is the "ticketing system"?

I was a new user from C8.5 and am very dismayed to see that so many of the bugs have been complained out for years sometimes on this forum. Some of them (I have reported them here) are very significant for a professional piece of software, and I'm getting way more frustrated than I've been with the other DAWs I've used in the past, as far as that is concerned. I can see how people feel like no one is paying attention because there quite a few very major workflow-inhbiting bugs and issues that just don't see the light of day as far as a fix.

I don't mean to sit her and complain, but right now I'm incredibly frustrated. I really want to stay with Cubase as a DAW because it's the best over what I've used in the past, but I haven't experienced this kind of thing before with this amount of years-long bugs and significant issues (I'm not talking about features -- I'm talking about actual bugs/issues) with the other DAWs I've used.
Cubase 9.5, Trashcan Mac 6-core 3.7ghz, High Sierra 10.13.4 OS, AMD FirePro D300 Dual, 64 gig RAM, plugins galore, some hardware, a bunch of real instruments and synths, Apollo 8 TB, etc., etc., and two cats

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by alexis » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:13 pm

Please, if I may ... this thread was started to describe a new method Steinberg has implemented to list bug reports, confirmed bugs, etc.

If it starts expanding to other things, such as "Cubase has too many bugs ..." and the like, then it's going to be very hard to have a discussion on the actual topic, such as how people feel about the new bug listing system, requests for change etc.

.
.
.

I'd like to say that after a few days of working with this system, where anything to do with bugs is listed in one thread - I find it so difficult and frustrating to locate anything to do with a specific bug that I am ready to give up ever looking for info about bugs again.

It's like everything that is loose in the house is thrown into one closet - after several months it's so cluttered no one ever looks in there any more.

Ann I the only one who feels this way?
Alexis

-Cubase "Safe Start Mode" (CTRL-ALT-SHIFT)
-Get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here,
-Replacing freely-timed section into a variable tempo project

Cubase 9.0.20; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W10 Pro 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo; Jamstix 3.6; RevoicePro3.3; EZDrummer 2

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by -steve- » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:00 pm

They did not implement a new method to list bug reports, confirmed bugs etc in the forum. It's the opposite, that they would no longer do so. Debating the point is an absurd way to pass your time.

If you want to report a bug in the forum, just do it. If you really want your report to count, use your my steinberg account to file a support request with a real repro. There have always been many, many items in the dev's bug list that did not appear on the forum.

One thing that's been unclear about the forum is that it's a user to user forum. But, since Steinberg staff participate, voluntarily, I might add, the expectation that the forum is an official technical support venue has grown.

imo, it's just as well they got rid of the former structure, since it added to the false expectations, and was never up-to-date. Now support staff has more time to devote to support, and clearly, they are in great need of that.
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by alexis » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:43 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:They did not implement a new method to list bug reports, confirmed bugs etc in the forum. It's the opposite, that they would no longer do so. Debating the point is an absurd way to pass your time.

If you want to report a bug in the forum, just do it. If you really want your report to count, use your my steinberg account to file a support request with a real repro.
There have always been many, many items in the dev's bug list that did not appear on the forum.

One thing that's been unclear about the forum is that it's a user to user forum. But, since Steinberg staff participate, voluntarily, I might add, the expectation that the forum is an official technical support venue has grown.

imo, it's just as well they got rid of the former structure, since it added to the false expectations, and was never up-to-date. Now support staff has more time to devote to support, and clearly, they are in great need of that.

I'm pretty close to speechless, though I know I shouldn't be.

What an aggressive-sounding post from moderator to customer!

"Streamlined" (the word used by Steinberg in the title to this post) wouldn't usually make one think of "not listing reports or confirming bugs", please excuse my confusion.

Trying to stay on topic - you're saying that bug reports should be filed as "support requests" via mysteinberg, "if we really want the report to count".

I'm wondering if I missed that instruction somewhere else, or whether this is the first time Steinberg is telling us to use mysteinberg support requests to report bugs. I'm wondering when did customer filing reports in the bug list become something that "doesn't count" ...

Thank you -
Alexis

-Cubase "Safe Start Mode" (CTRL-ALT-SHIFT)
-Get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here,
-Replacing freely-timed section into a variable tempo project

Cubase 9.0.20; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W10 Pro 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo; Jamstix 3.6; RevoicePro3.3; EZDrummer 2

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by -steve- » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:36 pm

I don't know if you missed any information, but requests made through the support system that reveal a bug are formally documented and tracked. That's why they work.

An issue posted here is good, but better yet would be a support ticket with a link to that issue report.
Cubase Pro, Nuendo, and Dorico Pro; latest versions available.
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by -steve- » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:40 am

In_Stereo wrote:What exactly is the "ticketing system"?
I presume he means the ticket that's created when you make a support request through the my steinberg website.
Cubase Pro, Nuendo, and Dorico Pro; latest versions available.
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by alexis » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:22 am

I'm trying to figure out the best way to identify and review the Steinberg-confirmed bugs.

Suggestions for how to do that with the streamlined forum?
Alexis

-Cubase "Safe Start Mode" (CTRL-ALT-SHIFT)
-Get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here,
-Replacing freely-timed section into a variable tempo project

Cubase 9.0.20; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W10 Pro 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo; Jamstix 3.6; RevoicePro3.3; EZDrummer 2

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by -steve- » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:30 pm

You could follow the forum posts, and when you see a bug report, do the repro on your system, then report back. That would take care of part of what you're asking, identifying, and also help the dev team to see that the issue is happening on multiple systems.

The next part doesn't involve the forum, I'm afraid: You would apply for a job with Steinberg Media Technologies GMBH in Hamburg Germany, as a Quality Assurance engineer. Once you are hired, you will have access to the database they use to track development, and all the intimate knowledge available therein about bugs, reports, future features, and development progress. ;)
Cubase Pro, Nuendo, and Dorico Pro; latest versions available.
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by alexis » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:38 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:You could follow the forum posts, and when you see a bug report, do the repro on your system, then report back. That would take care of part of what you're asking, identifying, and also help the dev team to see that the issue is happening on multiple systems.

The next part doesn't involve the forum, I'm afraid: You would apply for a job with Steinberg Media Technologies GMBH in Hamburg Germany, as a Quality Assurance engineer. Once you are hired, you will have access to the database they use to track development, and all the intimate knowledge available there about bugs, reports, future features, etc. ;)
What a great and helpful answer, thank you!

Please forgive me, I didn't post quite what I wanted to. I'm asking about the old bugs that were identified by Steinberg in the past. The ones that had things like [BON-] , etc. in front of them.
Alexis

-Cubase "Safe Start Mode" (CTRL-ALT-SHIFT)
-Get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here,
-Replacing freely-timed section into a variable tempo project

Cubase 9.0.20; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W10 Pro 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo; Jamstix 3.6; RevoicePro3.3; EZDrummer 2

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Detch » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:33 pm

@SteveInChicago
Where to find that Support tickets? In my profile it says
"Individual support for you is provided by one of our Steinberg distributors. Please find a list of distributors on this page"
What the hell, am I have to contact my local store?!!??
Please explain and provide proper instructions for bug reports.
Cubase 9.5.41, Windows 10 x64, i7 7700K, 32GB ram, Geforce GTX760

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by -steve- » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:07 pm

If you're not in a country where Steinberg or Yamaha provide direct support, you would have to post here or send email to info(at)steinberg.de.

I'm not a Steinberg employee, so please don't shoot the messenger. Steinberg employees' names are in blue or red on the forum. I'm green. :)
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Detch » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:31 pm

sorry @SteveInChicago
So I'm redirecting my question to @Matthias Quellmann:
Where to find that Support tickets? In my profile it says
"Individual support for you is provided by one of our Steinberg distributors. Please find a list of distributors on this page"
What the hell, am I have to contact my local store?!!??
Please explain and provide proper instructions for bug reports.

I'm Steinberg loyal customer for more than 14 years who pay for each upgrade I believe I deserve to have right to send support tickets.
You sell your product in my country so you have to accept my requests and bug reports.
Cubase 9.5.41, Windows 10 x64, i7 7700K, 32GB ram, Geforce GTX760

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by krevvy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:52 pm

Wow this is terrible news..
I keep trying to find things to keep me from moving to studio one..
Currently Steinbergs ignorance on console 1 support and now this rubbish! Seems like 9.x was my final upgrade.

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Evertone » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:17 am

This is a bad move if... bugs are not solved but, a really good move on steinberg if it gives them more time to focus and fix the old/current bugs. I better see that long list of fixed bugs when the next update comes along :D
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Pablo1980 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:23 am

Detch wrote:sorry @SteveInChicago
So I'm redirecting my question to @Matthias Quellmann:
Where to find that Support tickets? In my profile it says
"Individual support for you is provided by one of our Steinberg distributors. Please find a list of distributors on this page"
What the hell, am I have to contact my local store?!!??
Please explain and provide proper instructions for bug reports.

I'm Steinberg loyal customer for more than 14 years who pay for each upgrade I believe I deserve to have right to send support tickets.
You sell your product in my country so you have to accept my requests and bug reports.

This is, as I have already stated, unacceptable....I have bought all my previous upgrades directly from Steinberg. So you should give (legally) support to your customer, don't you?

Please Matthias, I have raised this issue before, can you give us a proper answer?
Film Composer - Argentina

Intel 3930k - Gigabyte x79s-up5 wifi - 32gb ram - Motu 24ao - Steinberg MR816x (2)
Windows 10 64bit - Cubase 9.5 Pro - Vepro 6

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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Matthias Quellmann » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Pablo1980 wrote:This is, as I have already stated, unacceptable....I have bought all my previous upgrades directly from Steinberg. So you should give (legally) support to your customer, don't you?

Please Matthias, I have raised this issue before, can you give us a proper answer?
If you are in country where the support is handled by the local distributor, you can always send an email to info@steinberg.de to report bugs or issues. These emails are processed by our support team in Hamburg.
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by Pablo1980 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:15 pm

Thanks Matthias, I didn´t knew that, and another employee told me otherwise once,

As I have stated in the survey today, I believe that Steinberg is not handling the comunication with its customers very well.
Film Composer - Argentina

Intel 3930k - Gigabyte x79s-up5 wifi - 32gb ram - Motu 24ao - Steinberg MR816x (2)
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by djw » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:29 am

So all in all my bug reports posted here, made with step by step reproductions and animated demos aren't as important as support tickets... Because? And why wasn't this told to me earlier before I made the effort?

In any case, I will then report them again but through tickets, like I apparently should've done in the first place.
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Re: Issue forum streamlined

Post by alexis » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:14 am

djw wrote:So all in all my bug reports posted here, made with step by step reproductions and animated demos aren't as important as support tickets... Because? And why wasn't this told to me earlier before I made the effort?

In any case, I will then report them again but through tickets, like I apparently should've done in the first place.
I understand the motivation to do just that, given what was posted by a Steinberg mod/employee, and the recent "streamlined" state of the Bug List.

That flags a (presumably?) unforeseen consequence of such a "streamlining" - less user-to-user interaction (no more great explanatory vids by djw and the others), including less user-to-user teaching. That is undesirable, I think all would agree, especially in a forum where Steinberg likes to emphasize that it is a (paraphrasing) "user-directed forum ... technical assistance here by Steinberg employees/mods is given at their kind pleasure, and is by no means mandated or to be expected".

That is the impression I have gotten over the past months and years. If I paraphrased that above so as to misrepresent Steinberg's position on their categorization of the forum, I do sincerely apologize.

I do ask that Steinberg review their involvement in the forum, and consider assigning employees to help out. There are many other music vendor sites that do that, and it really is a very nice thing. Who knows, maybe with some more interaction, there may even be some more great ideas presented by users that Steinberg can incorporate into their next great update!

Respectfully,
Alexis

-Cubase "Safe Start Mode" (CTRL-ALT-SHIFT)
-Get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here,
-Replacing freely-timed section into a variable tempo project

Cubase 9.0.20; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W10 Pro 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo; Jamstix 3.6; RevoicePro3.3; EZDrummer 2

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