metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

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ultradust
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metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by ultradust » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:59 am

I just noticed something weird (at least I think so).

In Cubase Pro 9.0.30, if I have plugins (such as metering or monitor correction plugins) on the Main Mix section of the Control Room, these plugins actually process the audio of the metronome if it's turned on. I noticed this when I saw the clicks of the metronome registering on a spectrogram plot. For fun, I tested the signal with a distortion plugin and had fun slamming the metronome clicks into full-on clipping. The Cubase metronome never sounded so rock.

OK, so to me this makes no sense. I can't imagine a situation where someone would want to process their metronome clicks with a plugin in the Control Room. Does anyone have any ideas on how to prevent the metronome from being included in the insert-based processing for the Main Mix signal in the Control Room, such that plugins applied there process the actual Main Mix but not the metronome? (Is there a way to set the metronome audio post-processing?) Or is this a bug?
Last edited by ultradust on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Martin.Jirsak
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Re: metronome audio included in Control Panel Main Mix

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:29 am

Hi,

Sorry, what do you mean by "Control Panel", please? Do you mean Control Room? Do you mean the Main of Control Room? Could you attach a screenshot, please? I cannot reproduce it here.
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ultradust
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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by ultradust » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:06 pm

Martin, thanks. You're right - I fritzed out and used the wrong term. "Room" not "Panel." I just edited the original post.

Yes, I'm talking about the Main Mix section of the Control Room.

Image

ultradust
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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by ultradust » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:54 am

No one else has seen this issue (metronome audio actually a part of the Control Room Main Mix)? I don't see how my instance of Cubase could be any different from any one else's in this regard.

Someone please try this: Put some effects on the Control Room Main Mix, then turn on the metronome there. Let me know if you do/don't hear the metronome being affected by the effects. Here, I can put delay, distortion, etc. on the mix and it applies to the metronome as well.

Obviously, this creates a problem for the mix itself as well as metronome accuracy; the metronome should be separate and not included in the mix signal path.

Anyone have any observations?

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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:13 am

Could you share your Preferences folder, please?
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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by ultradust » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:27 pm

Yes, and thank you for being willing to take a look at this. Much appreciated.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zt21c7559z845 ... 4.zip?dl=0

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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by ultradust » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:22 pm

This issue continues to be true in a fresh installation of Cubase 9.5.1.

Any further thoughts?

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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:30 am

OK, now I can (finally) reproduce it.

Reported.
Martin Jirsak
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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by ultradust » Fri May 25, 2018 2:52 pm

This issue continues to be true in a fresh installation of Cubase 9.5.30.

Martin, did you get any feedback on your report?

I see this entry in the 9.5.30 version history: "CAN-12920 Metronome - An issue has been resolved where the Metronome would no longer be audible in certain Output Bus configurations." So obviously there are some audio routing issues with the metronome.

Could you escalate this again? I keep using workarounds but it would be nice if this worked as expected.

Basically: The metronome audio should not be included (summed) into the Control Room mix prior to the control room inserts. It should be merged later on in the signal path so that it is not affected by the inserts.

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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Mon May 28, 2018 11:51 am

Hi ultradust,

CAN-13483 (Monitor Mix Inserts are audible on the Click), which is the bug you described has not been fixed, and is still open. Btw, it's not really new. It seems it has been this since ever.

CAN-12920 is something totally different. It has nothing to do with routing. When you removed a Stereo Bus, where was the Click routed to, the click wasn't (logically) routed to any output Bus. Then when you added a new output Bus, the Click wasn't routed there (this is questionable, if it should be routed there or not). The problem was, the user didn't have any chance, how to route the Click to this Bus, because the routing option was hidden in the Metronome Setup. Which was done just by GUI.
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Re: metronome audio included in Control Room Main Mix

Post by ultradust » Tue May 29, 2018 12:45 pm

Thanks, Martin, for the detailed followup and for the description of CAN-12920. Indeed, to me, the bug does sound like it has to do with routing (as your description mentions routing four times). I understand that it wasn't an audio issue per se, but rather a GUI-driven predicament. To me, it exposes that the metronome-related routing logic (and therefore the handling of its routing) is sometimes muddled in Cubase and CAN-13483 is another symptom of this. As we've both seen, bugs related to metronome audio have appeared through the years. With this current bug, essentially at some point during the build of the control room, the logic of where the metronome goes in the chain became muddled (possibly as an afterthought as compared to other features). Metronome audio shouldn't be included in a stream where audio processing affects the metronome signal, ever - but there it is.

Possibly the issue wasn't noticed before because most users historically did not apply noticeable audio processing at the control room stage. But today, with new plugins for monitor adjustment and room control available - control room plugins, really - this processing has become more crucial. When the processing actually causes the metronome to be imprecise (which I have experienced) due to CAN-13483, it's now a serious issue.

Would you be willing to follow up on this with Steinberg and perhaps highlight the seriousness of the issue? It's not really a bug to kick down the road. It's really quite an error.

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