9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by JMCecil » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:53 pm

we have a couple of threads going discussing this, but this has been reported now that we have a full repro.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Evertone » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:31 pm

JMCecil wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:53 pm
but this has been reported now that we have a full repro.
Glad to hear that. Thank You!!
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:50 pm

Guys.....

To put it bluntly, I don't think anyone in this thread understand how this feature works.

If you have a interface with a fixed-latency driver (which is the case with my Apollos), Cubase already knows about your interface round trip delay. This is the starting point 'guess' that Cubase takes to give the correct delay compensation in your DAW. So if you do a Ping test and get a '0', that means the guess was correct and everything is working as it should.

So again if you directly route a cable from your interface output 1 to your interface input 1 and did a ping test, .... it SHOULD report 0. Whether your buffer setting is at 32 samples or 1024 samples. Cubase already pre-emptivley knows about this delay... so the Ping test is for calculating any 'extra' stuff.....

If you have mostly Analog Outboard gear, (which has no inherent latency or delay) this should mostly read 0. However, if you have something like a ADAT output converter, or other digital process or digital FX that has some latency to it....this is where Cubase tries to calculate that and compensate it for you. Its possible your interface itself might have some onboard-DSP processes that introduce extra latency beyond the advertised 'guess' too.

At leasts that is how I understand how it works.

If you have an interface driver that constantly changes latency....then Cubase cant really help you much. Otherwise, like someone said, just make sure before a final bounce to Ping everybody.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by mr.roos » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:24 am

digi001, I completely disagree with your assessment and your understanding of the issue. Have you exited recorded audio to an analog external device and then returned it to the Cubase Project? The ping test exists and there's a reason why it exists, and, trust me, not for the reasons you suggest.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:50 pm

Yes.

I took a drum loop....duplicated it.
Ran it to my 1176 in all-buttons mode via External FX
Blended it back into the original. Did this at 64 samples and 1024 samples. Ping read '0' both times.
Heard no phasing or anything weird going on.

Hmm I can check again...
Is anyone else on a Universal Audio Apollo?
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:32 pm

I'm on the latest version of Cubase 9 by the way.......not 9.5
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Mike3345 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:48 pm

digi001 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:50 pm
Yes.

I took a drum loop....duplicated it.
Ran it to my 1176 in all-buttons mode via External FX
Blended it back into the original. Did this at 64 samples and 1024 samples. Ping read '0' both times.
Heard no phasing or anything weird going on.

Hmm I can check again...
Is anyone else on a Universal Audio Apollo?
To state the obvious - have you tried it in 32 bit mode? 64 bit mode could be the obvious cause of your problem.

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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:50 pm

Mike3345 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:48 pm
digi001 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:50 pm
Yes.

I took a drum loop....duplicated it.
Ran it to my 1176 in all-buttons mode via External FX
Blended it back into the original. Did this at 64 samples and 1024 samples. Ping read '0' both times.
Heard no phasing or anything weird going on.

Hmm I can check again...
Is anyone else on a Universal Audio Apollo?
To state the obvious - have you tried it in 32 bit mode? 64 bit mode could be the obvious cause of your problem.
I am not having a problem with this.
Just trying to explain to everyone on this thread how External FX works.
I believe I was in 64 bit mode.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:51 pm

0 MEANS IT IS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ZERO IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(at least thats how I understand it. working for me. Macbook Pro, El Capitain, Cubase 9, 3 Apollos and a studio full of analog gear)
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Mike3345 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:08 pm

No. Try it in 32 bit mode.

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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:00 pm

I don't think Cubase 9 has 64 bit option. So the above statement isn't true. I was in 32 bit mode.

However...i just tried this with my demo version of Cubase 9.5 and it works in both 32 and 64 bit mixing modes.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Mike3345 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:25 pm

It's possible this topic doesn't apply to you if you only use a computer interface and don't have outboard converters...I dunno.

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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:54 pm

It still 'can' apply to me for certain situations.

For example, I just inserted a UAD Neve 1073 into my Interface insert on my Apollo.
This means the DSP inside my interface now is processing the incoming signal. Since it is a intensive computer algorithm with oversampling and other things going on (not an analog process) it has a latency associated with it. Cubase doesn't know about this one because their isn't shared some Latency Compensation scheme between my Interface Plugins and my DAW (its not that complex). So it now sounds out of phase and weird.

I hit the 'Ping' button and it calculates 1.15ms which sounds about right.
I listen back and now everything sounds in phase and correct.

OR another example, like you said....if I use an external converter attached to my Interface ADAT output/input. Then depending on the converter this may add some digital latency which Cubase doesn't know about.

However....most of the reason I go out-of-the-box is to use Analog Gear...not digital. I have 32 channels of I/O on my 3 Apollos and they are all synced up to an external Clock source that Cubase also sees (not sure if the clock matters or not)

Everything working good here.

---------------

So yeh when I say '0' is good and what the Ping should read....that is assuming you are 1: using Analog Hardware and 2: using your interface I/O which has a reliable and consistent latency which is correctly being reported to Cubase.

Anyone else saying other things on this thread are WRONG from everything that I can tell.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Evertone » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:13 pm

digi001 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:54 pm
Everything working good here.
Glad to hear that it's working for you, thanks for the info!

Please let the others who are experiencing this issue continue to contribute to this thread in hopes of a solution. Ping/delay is not working for me in 64 bit mode and plenty of people have also reported this. It's sorta like the major GUI issue that was affecting users, some were affected and other weren't.

From my observations, I have determined that 32 bit mode works and 64 bit mode doesn't. The Ping/Delay compensation has always been a bit funky since CB 8 and apparently it was marked as an issue by Steinberg a while ago, here:
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=113761

Still hoping that Steinberg addresses this bug/issue for us users who are experiencing it.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:22 pm

Evertone wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:13 pm
digi001 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:54 pm
Everything working good here.
Glad to hear that it's working for you, thanks for the info!

Please let the others who are experiencing this issue continue to contribute to this thread in hopes of a solution. Ping/delay is not working for me in 64 bit mode and plenty of people have also reported this. It's sorta like the major GUI issue that was affecting users, some were affected and other weren't.

From my observations, I have determined that 32 bit mode works and 64 bit mode doesn't. The Ping/Delay compensation has always been a bit funky since CB 8 and apparently it was marked as an issue by Steinberg a while ago, here:
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=113761

Still hoping that Steinberg addresses this bug/issue for us users who are experiencing it.
Totally. I hope you guys find a solution!

I just wanted to make sure everyone understood how it works.
When it reports '0', this could very well mean that it is working. It's confusing when people post on here claiming that it is not working for this reason. I would recommend to simply use your 'Ears' to hear if it is working. An out of phase improperly compensated signal is easy to hear.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:28 pm

Evertone wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:13 pm
digi001 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:54 pm
Everything working good here.
Glad to hear that it's working for you, thanks for the info!

Please let the others who are experiencing this issue continue to contribute to this thread in hopes of a solution. Ping/delay is not working for me in 64 bit mode and plenty of people have also reported this. It's sorta like the major GUI issue that was affecting users, some were affected and other weren't.

From my observations, I have determined that 32 bit mode works and 64 bit mode doesn't. The Ping/Delay compensation has always been a bit funky since CB 8 and apparently it was marked as an issue by Steinberg a while ago, here:
viewtopic.php?f=253&t=113761

Still hoping that Steinberg addresses this bug/issue for us users who are experiencing it.
I just read the thread you linked to....

How do I put this.....I do not think they, or you apparently you, understand how this feature is supposed to work.
(Unless they have an additional ADAT/SPDIF converter or something hooked up which they are not referencing to)

Please see and read my explanation of how this is supposed to work and this might clarify some things for you.

Whoever reported that Cubase knows about the bug and said it isnt important I believe was a mis-communication.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:30 pm

Specifically in the thread they say:
''''''''''''''4. Cubase reports ALWAYS reports 0ms, which I know must be incorrect.'''''''''''''''

This is not a true statement if they are using an interface which is correctly reporting round-trip latency to Cubase.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by JMCecil » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:49 pm

to put it bluntly, external hardware compensation does not work when C9.5 is set to 64bit processing mode. It is broken.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:01 pm

Gotcha...ok.

Can confirm in Cubase 9.5 that 64 bit Ping does not work for me either (if I add latency plugins to my Apollo DSP input channel).
32 bit works fine and can adjust.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Evertone » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:20 pm

digi001 wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:01 pm
Can confirm in Cubase 9.5 that 64 bit Ping does not work for me either (if I add latency plugins to my Apollo DSP input channel).
32 bit works fine and can adjust.
Thank you for confirming this.
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Evertone » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:17 pm

FIxed and works perfect with CB 9.5.20.

Thanks to all who help make Steinberg aware of this bug. Good Job Steinberg!
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by Mike3345 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:54 pm

thanks evertone.

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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by JMCecil » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:32 pm

Sean Ryder Williams wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:27 pm
I'm still among the affected by this issue... I downgraded to 9.0.40 because of Direct Offline Process blunder by Steinberg...

I end up often having to mix down or render a track without being able to hear it in context of the mix. Big problem.

- Sean Ryder Williams
9.5.20 fixed the issue
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by JMCecil » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:04 pm

Sean Ryder Williams wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:53 pm
The reason for downgrading, and not to upgrade. My SSD cost 500$, they need to fix DOP, major issue.
But this thread is about delay compensation. You are in the wrong place.
Last edited by -steve- on Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: OT Posts removed
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Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Post by JMCecil » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:47 pm

Sean Ryder Williams wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:21 pm
Haha, thats why I was here. I'm saying I can't upgrade because that causes a huge problem of storage.
delay compensation on external hardware has nothing to do with storage.
cpu:i7 6950x - RAM:128gb - OS:Win 10 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
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