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9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:40 pm
by Mike3345
In 9.5, I get 0 when I check user delay/ping for External FX. The audio signal is passing through fine. It even sends the ping signal fine (it shows up on the AD converter post-round trip), but it just can't calculate the delay. 9.0 using the same setup pings fine.

Update: 9.5 pings fine when set to 32 bit processing. In 64 bit mode, ping is broken, which makes me very suspicious about the basic integrity of delay compensation generally in 64 bit.

Windows 10 64 bit
RME RayDat

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:57 pm
by Evertone
Confirmed!

I was wondering why I couldn't ping the delay in CB 9.5. This is bad news for us who use external gear. It was working fine in CB 9.0.30.

No ping:
64 bit_Delay.png
(114.17 KiB) Not downloaded yet
working ping:
32 bit_Delay.png
(111.49 KiB) Not downloaded yet
I guess the workaround for now is to ping the delay in 32 bit on all of my gear and then switch to 64 bit and see what happens.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:41 pm
by premediesel
I am suspicious that delay compensation is messed up in general. Getting strange sync issues where the click is not lined up to the audio grid, and recording is offset late.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:56 pm
by Mike3345
premediesel wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:41 pm
I am suspicious that delay compensation is messed up in general. Getting strange sync issues where the click is not lined up to the audio grid, and recording is offset late.
That sucks. 32 or 64 bit processing?

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:16 am
by aroomstudios
I am having the same problem with 9.5. It was working fine in 9.0.30. I was running a plugin on insert one then my external fx on insert 2. I though there was an issue with the version of plugin I had on insert 1. Seems to be 9.5 instead. Hope they come out with a update for this soon. I really like having 16 inserts in cubase and would rather use 9.5 then 9.



EDIT
Yeah, it is still sort of weird in 32bit. I may have to use Cubase 9 until there is an update.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:41 pm
by tonysenghore
I get this very same issue too since upgrading from 8.5... I haven't tried 32 bit yet but the Ping always reports "0" in 9.5 64 bit mixengine for me in any case.
I really need to be able to ping at all times. A total showstopper for me so I'm back on 8.5 for now.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:59 pm
by Raphie
Just record your wave, measure the empty space before the transient divide it by samplerate and there is your delay, ping needs to work, but if not, this is how you do it.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:16 pm
by Mike3345
tonysenghore wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:41 pm
I get this very same issue too since upgrading from 8.5... I haven't tried 32 bit yet but the Ping always reports "0" in 9.5 64 bit mixengine for me in any case.
I really need to be able to ping at all times. A total showstopper for me so I'm back on 8.5 for now.
Ditch 64 bit. It's pointless anyway.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:23 pm
by tonysenghore
Raphie wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:59 pm
Just record your wave, measure the empty space before the transient divide it by samplerate and there is your delay, ping needs to work, but if not, this is how you do it.
This is a good idea but my Prism Sound Orpheus can change it's latency at any time during a session so it isn't really feasable.
I need to measure the delay every time before i bounce anything analog (for peace of mind)

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:00 am
by Raphie
How would the prism do that? Normally the buffersize is set in the driver? Does the Prism have a dynamic buffer?

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:15 am
by tonysenghore
Raphie wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:00 am
How would the prism do that? Normally the buffersize is set in the driver? Does the Prism have a dynamic buffer?
I've spoken to support at Prism Sound support about this and they just said that this is normal. I think it is crazy. My old RME-APOGEE setup always reported the same roundtrip delay no matter what i did. Prism Sound Orpheus drivers are barely hanging on by the skin of its teeth if you ask me.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:49 am
by Raphie
Wow, that sounds insane, first time I've heard of that.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:06 pm
by 21seven
I am having exactly the same issue: when using cubase pro 9.5 in 64 bit the ping works (I can see the signal passing out of the DAC, through the gear it is connected to and back into the ADC), but it always reports 0 as the delay (which is of course wrong, and things are no longer in sync)

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:32 pm
by method1
Can confirm the ping does not work in 64-bit mode (mac os 10.11)
I do think the latency reporting is broken in general.
Using my Bricasti via AES, each click of the ping button gives a different result, and each result sounds wrong/bad, I end up just having to tune the delay by ear or measure manually.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:42 pm
by Evertone
Can someone at Steinberg please test this out to confirm the issue.

I just found another thread with more people having the delay compensation issue

viewtopic.php?f=253&t=127307

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:04 pm
by Evertone
Still not working in 9.5.10.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:06 pm
by Mike3345
Evertone wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:04 pm
Still not working in 9.5.10.
Proof there's a real fundamental problem with 64 bit delay compensation beyond just pinging external hardware.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:15 pm
by Evertone
Mike3345 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:06 pm
Proof there's a real fundamental problem with 64 bit delay compensation beyond just pinging external hardware.
I totally agree. If I remember correctly, it worked in CB 8.5 but not always and the results would vary. It got better in CB 9.0.
Not sure whats affecting this to not work properly in 64 bit, but it's probably not a minor issue.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:22 pm
by toader
Unfortunately, this has been broken for a VERY long time for some people - even in 32-bit mode. Check out this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=253&t=113761&p=621786&h ... ng#p621786

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:10 pm
by Evertone
toader wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:22 pm
Unfortunately, this has been broken for a VERY long time for some people - even in 32-bit mode. Check out this thread:
Good catch. Thanks!!

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:14 pm
by tonysenghore
Confirmed still not working in 9.5.1. Such a shame. :(

I might be kicking in open doors here but just as a tip you should always measure "ping" with a dry signal.
If you have any kind distortion or reverb or such there is a chance you might get a slightly off delay measurement because cubase is trying to measure a very short ping.

If ýou have a digital reverb unit for instance you should set it to 100% "dry" before you measure. That way you get both your D/A-A/D delay and the delay you get from the digital reverb unit itself (as an example).

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:30 am
by Evertone
It sucks because using 64 bit actually is more efficient on my system but I cannot use it due to the ping not working in 64 bit mode.

I'm still waiting for someone at Steinberg to let us know that they are at least aware of this.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:12 pm
by Carvin Man
Evertone wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:30 am
It sucks because using 64 bit actually is more efficient on my system but I cannot use it due to the ping not working in 64 bit mode.

I'm still waiting for someone at Steinberg to let us know that they are at least aware of this.
First, I am waiting for a fix my self ;)

Second, Switch to 32 bit mode, do your pinging and save your external plugins (and/or write down the delay settings). Then switch back to 64 bit mode.....

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:16 am
by Howling_Terror
^^^Cheers for the workaround Carvin Man.

The delay settings are saved so no need to write them down. Just switch back to 64bit engine and they're there.

Still a fiddle about IMO.

Re: 9.5 ping/ delay compensation is broken when in 64 bit mode

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:52 pm
by Evertone
Carvin Man wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:12 pm
Second, Switch to 32 bit mode, do your pinging and save your external plugins (and/or write down the delay settings). Then switch back to 64 bit mode.....
I agree, and I actually mentioned the same workaround in a previous post.

This is only effective when and only using 1 external FX at a time. What if you need to eq and compress or even run your signal thru 2 fx 'pieces of gear before coming back into Cubase? This is where the delay ping is required. Who's not to say that 64 bit processing doesn't add some delay... how would one know since it's not working in 64 bit :?