BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

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BrendanMcL
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BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by BrendanMcL » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:51 pm

I’m going crazy with getting tempo detection to work properly in 9.5.

I’ve used it in earlier versions (6-8.x). Read the manuals. Watched a dozen or more offical and after market help guides and tutorials.

Am I doing something stupid or is this a bug? Freeze at end seems so.

Here’s my workflow:

1. Tracked multiple songs in a single project (8 channels of drums plus midi triggers, DI Bass, guide vocals and guitar from a different room). Settings: all tracks on linear time base, (not musical mode); 96k 32bit; RME gear; UAD Octo (not used in tracking); win 10; everything up to date (inc 9.5.10);
2. From a clean start open the “tracking” project
3. Select a song to work on> save as new project; range select and delete time before and after the target song leaving just the one to work on. Save. Optionally restart.
4. Open newly saved project. Nothing except clean audio tracks and a single midi track.
5. Add a stereo track. Select some material with good regular transients (eg kick, snare), record them to the new stereo track.
6. Select the new event. In the bottom zoom area, set hit point threshold / edits to pick all the transients. Select Detect Tempo. Select Analyse.
7. Tempo track and signature track get added. Session goes into time warp mode. All good to here.
8. Issue 1: The detection Never picks the start transient as a tempo point.
9. Issue 2: if I warp/ drag the grid to the first hit point IT WILL NOT STICK. It just rebounds back. (Snap is NOT enabled)
10. Issue 3: I then try some other grid points to other hit points, they won’t stick either and just gives me yet another wrong guess at the tempo map overall. After a few more tries, cubase locks up! No crash. No error, just freezes as if it’s gone into some infinite loop (and so have I).
11. Restart computer, calm down, watch another tutorial, repeat from step 4.

Any help really appreciated - I’ve spent days and days trying to make this work to no avail.

Issue 1 screenshot attached.

Many thanks
Brendan
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Oldercodger1946
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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Oldercodger1946 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:55 pm

I have exactly the same problem. I’ve used previous projects and created a new project and imported an unrelated audio file. No matter what tracks I try to detect and edit the tempo it always ends in the same freeze after a few attempts to edit points, (springing back as described), and even leaving the computer for a few hours there is no resolution. Only way out is to select cubase and “end task” in the windows task manager utility.
Has there been any suggestions how to resolve this?

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Winter Rat » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:10 am

I've found out one thing - Tempo Detection works fine for me at 44100 Hz only, any other sample rate leads to the behavior described by BrendanMcL.
In C8.5 it works OK.
Cubase 9.5
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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by BrendanMcL » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:48 am

Good pick up. Steinberg, is this something you can look at? Happy to further triage with your suggestions.

-BM

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by BrendanMcL » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:47 am

@Winter Rat @Oldercodger1946 do either of you have a simple step by step, repeatable process starting from a blank project that doesn’t use any external recorded audio that we can use to allow Steinberg to replicate the error? I’m happy to be a tester if you do. Then we can get this logged as a confirmed bug and get a fix.

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Itchy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:15 am

I am also having the exact same problem. Very frustrating when I have Clients waiting.
Itchy

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Winter Rat
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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Winter Rat » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:42 pm

As soon as I'm at Cubase I will answer.
Cubase 9.5
Win 8.1; Intel Core i7-8700K; Gigabyte GA-Z370 HD3P; 16 GB, 3000 MHz; GeForce GTX 1050.

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by galoz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:36 pm

same problem here
Cubase 9.5.3 pro
Windows 7 64bits - Core i5 - SSD - 8Gb - Motu PCI 424 - Motu 2408MKiii - Motu 1296 -

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Soft_machine » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:11 pm

Same here :(((
(48kHz project)
DAW: Cubase 9.5.30 build 192 (x64), Windows 7/64-bit
PC: Intel Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz, 16 GB RAM, Asus GT610-SL
Converters: RME Multiface II, RME UC

Additional gear:
RME UC, Motu MIDI Timepiece AV, Long Stereo Channel preamp, Korg nanoKontrol, Korg KP3+, TC Fireworx, Tapco J800 amplifier, Tannoy precision 8p, Novation mininova, Novation SL61 MK2, Novation launchpad, Yamaha CP-33

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Itchy » Tue May 01, 2018 1:12 am

Has there been any response from Steinburg on this issue?

I can confirm that tempo detection does work as expected at 44.1 sample rate but not at 48K or 96K.
Itchy

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Oldercodger » Mon May 07, 2018 7:37 am

Tried several different ways all end the same. There is no set of steps that produce this problem, I have not tried 44.1 sample rate. I will post when I get a break. I am using an old dinasour laptop to get around this, it’s slow with lots of to and fro ing but it works.

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Re: Tempo Detection Freeze

Post by Oldercodger » Tue May 29, 2018 8:30 am

Yep. Recorded a project in 44.1k and the tempo detection and editing works fine.
Opened an existing project in Pro 9.5 recorded at 48k, this has all the afore mentioned issues. I changed the sample rate to 44.1k, (still set to 24bit), followed the convert audio prompts and on completion, tried the tempo detection and editing. Would you believe it works fine. Same thing with a project recorded at 96k.
The tempo detection and editing only works at 44.1k.
I have updated Cubase to latest V9.5.30, still having the same issue.

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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by In_Stereo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:10 pm

Confirmed.
Cubase 9.5, Trashcan Mac 6-core 3.7ghz, High Sierra 10.13.4 OS, AMD FirePro D300 Dual, 64 gig RAM, plugins galore, some hardware, a bunch of real instruments and synths, Apollo 8 TB, etc., etc., and two cats

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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by -steve- » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:54 pm

How about a reproduction sequence? The posts here give general reports, but no specific way to isolate the steps required to repro.

I did create a 48k project, and tried Tempo Detection on a 48k audio file and did not see any probs.
Cubase Pro, Nuendo, and Dorico Pro; latest versions available.
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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by Winter Rat » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:15 pm

-steve- wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:54 pm
How about a reproduction sequence?

Here you are.

1.Create a 88.2 kHz - 32 Bit Project.
2.Find in the MediaBay file "05 106 Drums-a"
3.Insert it into project.
4.Open Audio Pool
5.Uncheck Musical Mode (arrow #1 on the pic.)
6.Do Export Audio Mixdown
7.Create New project 88.2 kHz - 32 Bit
8.Import the new file into project
9.Select the event
10. Fulfill tempo detection
11. Try to move Bar #14 (arrow #2 on the pic.) to its proper position (arrow #3 on the pic.)
1.png
(170.06 KiB) Not downloaded yet
The Bar jumps back to the previous position.

If you do the same steps in 44.1 kHz project all bars will stick to the places you move them.

I've upgraded my PC recently so I had to reinstall everything, now I've got the cleanest of the cleanest system.

Actually my post is repeating BrendanMcL's first post. The situation was already pretty clear IMHO.
Cubase 9.5
Win 8.1; Intel Core i7-8700K; Gigabyte GA-Z370 HD3P; 16 GB, 3000 MHz; GeForce GTX 1050.

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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by -steve- » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:47 am

There is no specification for the sample rate of the export, and the first 7 steps seem to serve the purpose of creating a file to use for the test, rather than being part of the repro sequence.

I did attempt the repro, but I think the steps are not the ones needed.

I'm sorry, but I don't have time to read through the narratives about the issue above, but I am willing to attempt a repro if given the steps to do so.
Cubase Pro, Nuendo, and Dorico Pro; latest versions available.
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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by Winter Rat » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:28 pm

Ok.
The First 7 steps are there to show that I used nothing but Cubase and Steinberg Content, so nothing else involved, and you can skip them.
Just do tempo detection and try to move a bar to another position being in the warp mode. That's it.
Cubase 9.5
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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by -steve- » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:55 pm

If it's that simple,

- set project sample rate to anything other than 44k
- record audio file
- do Tempo Detection
- move a barline using timewarp tool

There must be more to it, as it worked as expected for me.

Sorry to say, without a clear way to reproduce, there's no way to analyze the problem. In this case, Steinberg support would have the time and resources to help someone figure out how to make the steps.
Cubase Pro, Nuendo, and Dorico Pro; latest versions available.
Windows Pro 10 | i7-3770k | GA-77x-UD5h | 32 Gb | UR-RT2 | MOTU Ultralite mk3 hybrid
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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by galoz » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:41 pm

For me
- recorded at 48khz
- do a tempo detection
- with tempo detection panel active and reanalysis direction to the right
- change any dot in the middle of the audio file, and thats it,
unusable, everything seems to be reanalyzed.
Cubase 9.5.3 pro
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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by -steve- » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:35 am

galoz wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:41 pm
For me
- recorded at 48khz
- do a tempo detection
- with tempo detection panel active and reanalysis direction to the right
- change any dot in the middle of the audio file, and thats it,
unusable, everything seems to be reanalyzed.
Please, include your OS and OS version details, without it your report is pretty much useless, since this problem can't be reproduced on every system.
Cubase Pro, Nuendo, and Dorico Pro; latest versions available.
Windows Pro 10 | i7-3770k | GA-77x-UD5h | 32 Gb | UR-RT2 | MOTU Ultralite mk3 hybrid
Macbook Pro 2011 | Mac OS 10.11

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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by Winter Rat » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:38 pm

This is how it works at 44.1kHz
https://youtu.be/mw_N2qg66As

This is how it "works" at 88.2kHz
https://youtu.be/UnU2AqKJ0rU

I've got nothing to add. There are no repro steps because it just "works" this way.

And such a behavior I have on two different systems, I mean hardware.
Cubase 9.5
Win 8.1; Intel Core i7-8700K; Gigabyte GA-Z370 HD3P; 16 GB, 3000 MHz; GeForce GTX 1050.

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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by Winter Rat » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:38 pm

Anyone else?
Cubase 9.5
Win 8.1; Intel Core i7-8700K; Gigabyte GA-Z370 HD3P; 16 GB, 3000 MHz; GeForce GTX 1050.

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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by BrendanMcL » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:33 am

System, Hardware, and Software Details.
Full Recipe.
Videos of steps.
Project link.

Note 1: I'm not sure how many of these steps contribute to the bug, however all are included to ensure nothing is missed.
Note 2: The basic video capture in win10 doesn't show the menu drop-downs or mouse cursor

System Details:
Windows 10 Pro
Fully patched and up to date as of 29/06/2018
Intel i7 980 @ 3.33Ghz, 24G RAM, SD Drives
64 Bit
RME Fireface UFX
Driver 04.05.18 v1.114 Hardware Rev: 357
Cubase Pro V9.5.30 Build 192 (64bit) May 7 2018

Test Scenario:
Single B58 Microphone (pointed at the studio monitors)
Cubase metronome set to "sticks"
Single Mono Audio Track, recording the B58 at 96k 32 bit
Record the metronome via the microphone to the audio track (in track linear mode) project tempo default: 120
Change the project global tempo to 155
Select the audio event, Project/Tempo Detection
Demonstrate the bug

Project Details:
File / New / Empty Project / New folder "Cubase Bug"
Project Settings: 96K 32 Bit
Added single Mono Input Bus "12 B58" on RME channel 12
Track is Time Linear
Output bus: default stereo (RME 1&2)
Ruler Mode: Bars/Beats, Time Linear
Tempo: manual, 120 bpm
Tempo Track: Disabled
Snap Enabled: Grid + Events + Cursor
Add Mono Audio Track
Moved Transport to bar 5 <snap>
Activated Metronome
Enabled track record

Recorded the metronome for a while
(video 1)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l4zs3m7ob5avg ... 1.mp4?dl=0

Selected event
Selected lower editor
Selected hitpoints
Adjusted threshold, checking for correct detection
(Video 2)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uadcbc3a0jh7x ... 2.mp4?dl=0

Transport on Bar 5 <snap>
Select event
Manually change global project tempo to 155
(Cursor still at start of event, but now sitting between bar 6 and 6.2 due tempo change)
Turn snap off
Project / Tempo Detection
BUG: Try to warp grid (snaps back ans breaks)
BUG: A few more attempts and more breaks
BUG: And never recovers
BUG: After resetting detection, it looks good - add a few points, re-analyze, ok, move points (bang!)
(Video 3 - Above)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0rw134u9nk2g ... 3.mp4?dl=0

Project Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6s24161y3g4l ... B9Dua?dl=0

Steinberg: This is getting very frustrating. This is not a community supported, open source product. It is commercial software. You now have several users reporting this bug (and according to your stipulated bug reporting procedure) and the response is utterly underwhelming. I first reported this bug in December last year.

Where should I send my invoice for the preparation of the above recipe and videos?

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Winter Rat
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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by Winter Rat » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:10 pm

Seems like Steinberg doesn't have time to fix Cubase bugs. Or perhaps this feature is deadly unimportant. Or nobody uses 88.2kHz files or nobody else has this bug.
But anyway everybody is busy as hell.
Cubase 9.5
Win 8.1; Intel Core i7-8700K; Gigabyte GA-Z370 HD3P; 16 GB, 3000 MHz; GeForce GTX 1050.

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Re: BUG: Cubase 9.5 Tempo Detection only works properly at 44.1k

Post by galoz » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Winter Rat wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:38 pm
This is how it works at 44.1kHz
https://youtu.be/mw_N2qg66As

This is how it "works" at 88.2kHz
https://youtu.be/UnU2AqKJ0rU

I've got nothing to add. There are no repro steps because it just "works" this way.

And such a behavior I have on two different systems, I mean hardware.
exactly the same here, except it doesn't work at 48khz either
Cubase 9.5.3 pro
Windows 7 64bits - Core i5 - SSD - 8Gb - Motu PCI 424 - Motu 2408MKiii - Motu 1296 -

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