Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

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Getalife2
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Getalife2 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:40 pm

As an aid to diagnosis, is there a key command or command line entry available to boot N8 with the video engine disabled?
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Robbie Ost » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:21 pm

linzevalk wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:46 pm
I'm curious to hear what a fresh install will bring Robbie Ost...although it remains strange that N7 runs great and N8 freezes up and runs crappy as hell, in my case under Windows 7...that does not point towards a fresh Windows install in my opinion...
hmm good point, but we seem to be a minority with this problem, so maybe we both have different origins of the problem in our setup.
or maybe not... ;)

I don't what else to do..but it looks like i won't be able to do a fresh install soon anyway..not the the time nor the head for it. ;)
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by drorh4 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:04 am

Im using the trial. updated.

For me, N8 doesnt work well.
Yes its sluggish but in a random way. I have all kinds of problems with the program stucking in weird situation where zoom in-out not working or working the opposite way.
My kensingon trackball acts crazy.
the metronom isnt working from time to time.

I dont know where to begin.

I attach the last message I got from the system
Capture.PNG
(156.08 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Tank » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:30 pm

Hi have the same problem. Every few minutes I get a freeze where everything stops for a minute or so then it's
Okay again. It's definitely something to do with the new video engine as everything is fine in N7 but more importantly everything is fine in cubase 9 which still has the old video engine.

I also have G force NVIDIA graphics and updating the drivers makes no difference.

Tank

Windows 7 64, Dual 12 Core XEON, 64 Gb memory, G Force NVIDIA graphics, RME sound cards.

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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Getalife2 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:17 pm

N8 is running extremely well for me on my Win 7 setup. But I am bothered that it's not for others.

Can somebody on Win10 try this? Go to: C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Nuendo 8\Components and change the suffix of videoengine.dll to videoengine.xxx and do the same with VideoCodec-Apple-ProRes.dll. as in VideoCodec-Apple-ProRes.xxx. You will of course change it back to .dll later, but try that and see if it makes a difference. Of course, you cannot play video, but it's just changing one variable at a time to track the issue down.

Video engine is the biggest change between N7 and N8 so it seems a likely place to start. Add in that there are significant differences between the way Win 7 and Win 10 handle graphics.
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Xiste » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:10 am

Just installed and looking at the new interface, my compliments, looks great guys!
No! It doesn't look good.
Nuendo is rapidly starting to look more and more like Logic Pro X – and (worst of all) it's starting to perform just as bad as Logic Pro X .
Steinberg is obviously trading the wrong values. The focus should be on performance, not on appearance.
N6.5 is, in my opinion, still the best performer ever from Steinberg.
Steinberg should look to Pro Tools (not to Logic Pro X) when they are "upgrading". Then maybe we could get a real upgrade instead of a sluggishly performing makeover.

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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by linzevalk » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:58 am

Getalife2 wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:17 pm
N8 is running extremely well for me on my Win 7 setup. But I am bothered that it's not for others.

Can somebody on Win10 try this? Go to: C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Nuendo 8\Components and change the suffix of videoengine.dll to videoengine.xxx and do the same with VideoCodec-Apple-ProRes.dll. as in VideoCodec-Apple-ProRes.xxx. You will of course change it back to .dll later, but try that and see if it makes a difference. Of course, you cannot play video, but it's just changing one variable at a time to track the issue down.

Video engine is the biggest change between N7 and N8 so it seems a likely place to start. Add in that there are significant differences between the way Win 7 and Win 10 handle graphics.
Thanks for you suggestions Getalife2!
I run on Windows 7, but tried your suggestion and renamed the videoengine and codec files, N8 seems to run fine than!
I then tried something else, and copied the engine in the N7 components folder to the N8 components folder and voila N8 runs on the old videoengine again....but not for long...it froze again after a minute or so...but the proof is here, that it has something to do with the videoengine and N8 (old and new).

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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Robbie Ost » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:59 am

Guy sand Gals!

I can't believe it but Hamburg found my problem and it might also affect your setup:

I have (had now) a DLNA Server in my network which constantly broadcasts " I am here" so the device manager in w10 updates frequently
(once or twice per minute) and the new routine in N8 scans for new USB devices in the setup.

And as i have a RME MADI FX card with tons of I/Os this takes a while. So it freezes the UI and MIDI stream.
I just disabled the DLNA Server on my QNAP Server and I am back in Nuendo 8 Buisness now!
:-)
Maybe this helps some guys! let me know!
N8/WL9/Win10x64/i7-4790k/32GB/RME MADI FX/Decklink SDI/Waves Mercury/NI Komplete/etc.

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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by ChrisPolus » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:12 pm

Xiste wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:10 am
No! It doesn't look good.
Matter of taste. I like Logic, and I also like that it has a way denser UI so you see more of what's going on without folding sections in and out like an animal. And still I keep the overview. But that's me. I understand different people have a different taste.
Xiste wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:10 am
Nuendo is rapidly starting to look more and more like Logic Pro X – and (worst of all) it's starting to perform just as bad as Logic Pro X.
I have NO idea what you're talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3UuA38JP8Q

Logic for me is blazing fast. While Nuendo is a slide show with 2 frames per second.
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jorisdeman
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by jorisdeman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:24 pm

Excellent video Chris,

That has been pretty much my experience on my iMac as well.

Logic certainly feels a lot faster with a similar amount of tracks.

As logic is an Apple application these days, i get the sense that they're much better at leveraging system resources, at least as far as GUI redraws and optimisations is concerned.

I do wonder how long it is going to take for SB to address and update this though.
At the moment, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Nuendo on the Mac is generally nicer to use as the OS is imho a lot nicer and friendlier.
But performance is too sluggish now.

On my new PC, it flies, but it now has come to light that the PC version has a severe plug-in/dll issue where it will start losing plugins/not instancing them beyond a certain count, due to certain types of DLL's that are used in VST's.

So it appears each version has pretty major issues in its own way. Not good SB, not good...
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by fenderchris » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:07 pm

jorisdeman wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:24 pm
On my new PC, it flies, but it now has come to light that the PC version has a severe plug-in/dll issue where it will start losing plugins/not instancing them beyond a certain count, due to certain types of DLL's that are used in VST's.
Yes, this has been apparent for years. It relates to a limit on the number of devices and DLL's that can be loaded. Nothing has been done about it yet, although I have been told that they are going to do something soon. I certainly hope so as I have noticed that every update seems to reduce the number that can be loaded.
Chris

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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by jorisdeman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:04 pm

fenderchris wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:07 pm
jorisdeman wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:24 pm
On my new PC, it flies, but it now has come to light that the PC version has a severe plug-in/dll issue where it will start losing plugins/not instancing them beyond a certain count, due to certain types of DLL's that are used in VST's.
Yes, this has been apparent for years. It relates to a limit on the number of devices and DLL's that can be loaded. Nothing has been done about it yet, although I have been told that they are going to do something soon. I certainly hope so as I have noticed that every update seems to reduce the number that can be loaded.
Yup; I've had the issue for years as well before I moved back to the mac 2-3 years ago. I always thought it had something to do with session or memory corruption; it wasn't until I found out last week what the real issue is.
I'm in the process of moving back to the PC for Nuendo and this was one of the first things I was confronted with; sessions with missing plugins and not being able to instance them (as well as the horror that is Windows :P)
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:48 am

Don't forget the Windows 10 multiprocessor limitation with Cubendo.
https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... CPU-setups

We will see what the new Mac Pros will bring that ware promised for next year....
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Dolfo » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:51 pm

Oh my God. I've just opened an actual project created with N8 into N5.5. I can't believe this is the same machine. All runs fine and smoothly!!! GUI is very responsive and quick.

It's not possible to do an evolution worse in GUI therms...
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by In_Stereo » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:55 pm

Dolfo wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:51 pm
Oh my God. I've just opened an actual project created with N8 into N5.5. I can't believe this is the same machine. All runs fine and smoothly!!! GUI is very responsive and quick.

It's not possible to do an evolution worse in GUI therms...
Yes, on Mac it's a disaster -- that's not an exaggeration. There are a few people who don't seem to have the issue for some reason (a couple are on Hackintoshes), but the very large majority on the Cubase forum does if the thread I started many months ago is any indication. I have worked with Fredo there to try to get this resolved and I know that they are working on it, but the fear is that it will take a lot of re-coding (as has been mentioned here in the Nuendo forum) and will take a long time.
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by In_Stereo » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:46 pm

I know there's a lot of complaining and whining here (there is on the Cubase C9 forum, too), but it's not without solid reasons on both cases. Hopefully the major upcoming fixes will help with that. :)
Last edited by In_Stereo on Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Puma0382 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:39 pm

I noticed something amongst the long list of items in the Release Notes for the latest Pro-Tools update:-
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/read ... ease-Notes

There's an entry under 'Optimisations', right at the very end of that list, about UI sluggishness on MAC 4K/5K displays being improved by (the user) making certain tweaks to color profiles or somesuch.

Maybe there's a clue for MAC 4K/5K users, and Cubendo...
(clutching at straws)

I'm not affected here of course, but I see how utterly frustrating it must be for those trying to work with it, like it currently is on some MACs. Horrible.

Bob
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by In_Stereo » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:31 pm

Puma0382 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:39 pm
I noticed something amongst the long list of items in the Release Notes for the latest Pro-Tools update:-
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/read ... ease-Notes

There's an entry under 'Optimisations', right at the very end of that list, about UI sluggishness on MAC 4K/5K displays being improved by (the user) making certain tweaks to color profiles or somesuch.

Maybe there's a clue for MAC 4K/5K users, and Cubendo...
(clutching at straws)

I'm not affected here of course, but I see how utterly frustrating it must be for those trying to work with it, like it currently is on some MACs. Horrible.

Bob
Thanks for that Bob!

Unfortunately it doesn't help someone who isn't on an iMac 4k/5k in that particular case. Just for the hell of it I tried it on my Mac Pro system (this is on C9, but it's the exact same situation with Nuendo 8) and it didn't help...but you never know, it could help someone else!
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by Darren The Musical » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:39 pm

Wow! This did actually help me. I have a mac trash can outputting to a 4k TV and 2 regular hd monitors. Whenever I run Nuendo in full screen on the 4k things start to slog whenever I manipulating zooming or scrolling. Changing the color setting as shown in the notes, "In the Display Profile list, select “sRGB IEC61966-2.1” actually made a very really difference for me. Things are as clunky anymore! Fantastic!

Thanks!

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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by jorisdeman » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:41 pm

Don't think it made any difference on my iMac 5k.
My icons are a bit more color saturated though, so there's that:)

I'm back on 7 for now on the Mac and about to switch to n8 the PC so I can have some actual performance.

It's a bit tragic really, as I'm in a rock and a hard place.

Work on the Mac, but have a sluggish UI and lack of performance, but at least an awesome OS to work in on a lovely machine.

Or work on the PC, in the OS From Hell (tm), with good performance but a limit of 64 unique plugins before Nuendo can't instance anymore....

SB really need to start sorting out their *bleep*
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by In_Stereo » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:16 am

jorisdeman wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:41 pm
Don't think it made any difference on my iMac 5k.
My icons are a bit more color saturated though, so there's that:)

I'm back on 7 for now on the Mac and about to switch to n8 the PC so I can have some actual performance.

It's a bit tragic really, as I'm in a rock and a hard place.

Work on the Mac, but have a sluggish UI and lack of performance, but at least an awesome OS to work in on a lovely machine.

Or work on the PC, in the OS From Hell (tm), with good performance but a limit of 64 unique plugins before Nuendo can't instance anymore....

SB really need to start sorting out their *bleep*

Do you find that doing stuff like multiple sections, enabling record, etc., etc., is faster on Windows when you've tried it? Compared to every other DAW I've tried on the same computer, Cubase and Nuendo are slow to respond with things like this by way of comparison. They feel like you're slowed down in mud in some ways whereas the other DAWs are like moving freely. When I tried Cubase on a couple of other Windows machines, it was far better (though still not QUITE as fast reacting as Pro Tools, for example) - just wondering if this has been your experience as well?
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by jorisdeman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:22 pm

Yes, the difference is quite vast really. It took a fair bit of time to get this PC up and running - apparently thunderbolt is still a 'new' thing in Windows world whereas macs have had it for years; as I'm using a TB Apollo (that I wanted to be able to easily switch back to the Mac if need be on short notice, without having to keep flashing firmware), so it was a lot of fiddling with firmware, drivers and adaptors.

Anyhoo, yes, it runs a lot faster and smoother. Reaction is pretty instantaneous and as fast as I remember it from my pre-Mac days a few years ago.
But it does ofcourse get a tad slower on larger sessions - still, compared to the Mac the difference is vast.

I'm really puzzled as to why SB hasn't noticed this before - perhaps there are a lot less Mac users, or perhaps no one who does run a Mac run large sessions...i don't know, I'm just surprised it seemingly hasn't been picked up by SB so far, especially considering a lot of the demo videos are usually recorded on a Mac.
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by twelvetwelve » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:52 pm

I've had to move back to Nuendo 7 as Nuendo 8 is just too slow.

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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by In_Stereo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:37 am

jorisdeman wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:22 pm
Yes, the difference is quite vast really. It took a fair bit of time to get this PC up and running - apparently thunderbolt is still a 'new' thing in Windows world whereas macs have had it for years; as I'm using a TB Apollo (that I wanted to be able to easily switch back to the Mac if need be on short notice, without having to keep flashing firmware), so it was a lot of fiddling with firmware, drivers and adaptors.

Anyhoo, yes, it runs a lot faster and smoother. Reaction is pretty instantaneous and as fast as I remember it from my pre-Mac days a few years ago.
But it does ofcourse get a tad slower on larger sessions - still, compared to the Mac the difference is vast.

I'm really puzzled as to why SB hasn't noticed this before - perhaps there are a lot less Mac users, or perhaps no one who does run a Mac run large sessions...i don't know, I'm just surprised it seemingly hasn't been picked up by SB so far, especially considering a lot of the demo videos are usually recorded on a Mac.
OK, thanks for the details, jorisdeman. Maybe Mac is not as high on their priority list? Even if that's true, I agree that it's mind-bogglingly puzzling why they didn't notice this before.

I'm torn between either going back to Pro Tools/going to another DAW (possibly) or moving over to Windows if these things aren't sorted with the upcoming updates. I've been on PT for a few months now because of the problem, and I simply can't go back to the workflow-destroying slowness of Cubendo on Mac. I don't want to/shouldn't need to buy an entirely new computer with the associated set-up etc. just to have a Cubendo that works as it should...so there's that as well. I feel like I'm 100% rightfully frustrated here -- I'm dearly hoping that they fix this with the upcoming versions.

Cubase 8.5 and now 9 have been out for a long time, so it's highly disappointing that N8 was released with this dramatic issue still in place.
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Re: Nuendo 8 performs sluggish

Post by jorisdeman » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:19 am

C9 still performs a lot better than N8 on my new W10 system here.
Did a clean install of N8, not even importing any preferences other than keycommands, and it still feels a lot more sluggish even compared to C9.

I have noticed that thumbnails on video *really* slow things down significantly, as does the split arrange view, though not to the same extent as video thumbnails. Tried increasing the cache, doesn't seem to make a difference.

C9 is performing quite pleasantly here, and as someone tipped in another thread, Process Lasso seems to squeeze some extra juice out of my system.
It's pretty smooth right now.
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