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HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:27 pm
by Ericvoigt
I activated HiDIP in the Program Settings. But now everything is reeally small on a high resolution display. Does a proper HiDpi scaling actually work on Windows or is this feature only for Mac Users?
EDIT: It only seems to work at 150% scaling but then it's reeeally big

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:29 pm
by jaslan

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:39 pm
by Ericvoigt
@Matthias Quellman
Any plans to submit full HiDPI support for Windows in a maintanance update?

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:45 pm
by vox_humana
HiDPI support working on Windows 10 is the biggest selling point of Cubase 10 for me,
I too would like better understanding of what is "Limited" and will these limitations ever be resolved?
Thank you

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:35 pm
by cmbsa
vox_humana wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:45 pm
HiDPI support working on Windows 10 is the biggest selling point of Cubase 10 for me,
I too would like better understanding of what is "Limited" and will these limitations ever be resolved?
Thank you
+1
thanks

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:20 pm
by twelvetwelve
Currently Cubase supports only integer monitor scaling settings from Windows, for example:

- Monitor scaling setting of 125% displays Cubase with 100%
- Monitor scaling setting of 150% displays Cubase with 200%
- Monitor scaling setting of 175% displays Cubase with 200%
- Monitor scaling setting of 200% displays Cubase with 200%

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:18 pm
by Matthias Quellmann
vox_humana wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:45 pm
HiDPI support working on Windows 10 is the biggest selling point of Cubase 10 for me,
I too would like better understanding of what is "Limited" and will these limitations ever be resolved?
Thank you
The limitations are described in the knowledge base article. Basically it's the limitation to integer monitor scaling on Windows. Maybe wait for the trial and give it a test run on your monitor setup.

Of course this limitation is not what we understand as full HiDPI support on Windows and we are going to improve it in future updates.

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:10 pm
by Xtigma
Is there any way to force Cubase to use the 100% setting regardless of what the Desktop Percentage you have set? I have a 4k monitor set to 200% but I run cubase at native 4k.

In Cubase 10's current form I have only 2 choices,
1. run cubase at 200% (which is too cramped)
2. set my monitor to 125%, then log off then back on.

also as a sub note, at least on windows the track waveforms appear to be at a lower resolution.

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:10 pm
by Ericvoigt
Matthias Quellmann wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:18 pm
Of course this limitation is not what we understand as full HiDPI support on Windows and we are going to improve it in future updates.
Does future update mean maintenance update (10.0x) or do we have to wait for the next version?

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:28 pm
by Pablo1980
Xtigma wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:10 pm
Is there any way to force Cubase to use the 100% setting regardless of what the Desktop Percentage you have set? I have a 4k monitor set to 200% but I run cubase at native 4k.

In Cubase 10's current form I have only 2 choices,
1. run cubase at 200% (which is too cramped)
2. set my monitor to 125%, then log off then back on.

also as a sub note, at least on windows the track waveforms appear to be at a lower resolution.
Did they change this? I use windows at 150% and force cubase to run at 4k, if this has changed this update is a no-go for me

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:39 pm
by Xtigma
Pablo1980 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:28 pm
Xtigma wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:10 pm
Is there any way to force Cubase to use the 100% setting regardless of what the Desktop Percentage you have set? I have a 4k monitor set to 200% but I run cubase at native 4k.

In Cubase 10's current form I have only 2 choices,
1. run cubase at 200% (which is too cramped)
2. set my monitor to 125%, then log off then back on.

also as a sub note, at least on windows the track waveforms appear to be at a lower resolution.
Did they change this? I use windows at 150% and force cubase to run at 4k, if this has changed this update is a no-go for me
Yes, if you have your windows set to 150% at this moment in time there is no way to run cubase at 4k native (full resolution)
you have to drop down to 125% then log off and back on, right clicking the exe and choosing ignore dpi settings does nothing anymore..

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:38 pm
by aaandima
If you want to use full 4K without the limitations "too small", we need to use at least a 45- 50 inch monitor. Only then are all the pixels again at about 90 ppi as in the past with the usual screens. Otherwise, the graphics must be scaled, so that the benefits of 4K are partially lost again.

Informations: https://www.eizoglobal.com/library/basi ... index.html

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:41 pm
by Pablo1980
Matthias Quellmann wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:18 pm
vox_humana wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:45 pm
HiDPI support working on Windows 10 is the biggest selling point of Cubase 10 for me,
I too would like better understanding of what is "Limited" and will these limitations ever be resolved?
Thank you
The limitations are described in the knowledge base article. Basically it's the limitation to integer monitor scaling on Windows. Maybe wait for the trial and give it a test run on your monitor setup.

Of course this limitation is not what we understand as full HiDPI support on Windows and we are going to improve it in future updates.
Hi Matthias. Can you clarify this?
With mi 40” screen, I use windows at 125% and cubase at 100% (ignoring the scaling)

Are you saying that this isn’t possible anymore? What has changed?

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:56 pm
by twelvetwelve
Just disable HiDPI in Cubase and it will work like the 9.5 does although you won't get the HiDPI support. Until Steinberg support other scaling factors other than 100% and 200% it's the only solution.

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:58 pm
by laimon
Let me get this: so currently the scaling with HiDPI is either full 4K (which is basically unusable, I am afraid) or 2K?

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:00 am
by Xtigma
twelvetwelve wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:56 pm
Just disable HiDPI in Cubase and it will work like the 9.5 does although you won't get the HiDPI support. Until Steinberg support other scaling factors other than 100% and 200% it's the only solution.
It unfortunately does not work in the same way as 9.5 when you disable HiDPI, it locks to 200% when you disable HiDPI (or presumably whatever you have your scale value to, and there is no way to disable this. (that i have found))

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:13 am
by twelvetwelve
Can't say my experience is the same. I'm running at 150% scaling on a 4k monitor and I just disable HiDPI and it looks like the usual.

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:18 am
by Xtigma
twelvetwelve wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:13 am
Can't say my experience is the same. I'm running at 150% scaling on a 4k monitor and I just disable HiDPI and it looks like the usual.
sorry yes, if your 'usual' is 150 then disabling HiDPI will give you your 'usual' my usual is 100, when i set my scaling to 200, as I disable all scaling

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:36 pm
by Fairlight2cx
I'm running on Win7 with 4k and 150% Windows scaling.

Cubase 10 doesn't even -have- a HiDPI option in the General tab. Is this normal?

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:59 pm
by Arne Scheffler
Fairlight2cx wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:36 pm
I'm running on Win7 with 4k and 150% Windows scaling.

Cubase 10 doesn't even -have- a HiDPI option in the General tab. Is this normal?
Cubase only supports the HiDPI mode on Windows 10.

Hope this helps.

Re: HiDPI in Windows 10

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:19 pm
by Fairlight2cx
Oh, I thought only the problems were on Win10.

I'll upgrade 1-3 months before Win7 EOL, purely on security grounds. The fallout from the move is not to be undertaken lightly

Thanks for the info!

Why no HiDPI in Windows 7?

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:53 pm
by MT_
Arne Scheffler wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:59 pm
Cubase only supports the HiDPI mode on Windows 10.
Arne, why just Windows 10 is supported while Windows 7 has basically the same HiDPI support?

Re: Why no HiDPI in Windows 7?

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:36 pm
by Arne Scheffler
MT_ wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:53 pm
Arne, why just Windows 10 is supported while Windows 7 has basically the same HiDPI support?
No, Windows 7 and Windows 10 have totally different HiDPI implementations. For example there no support for multiple displays with different DPI on Windows 7, but that's only one of many things missing in Windows 7.

Cheers,
Arne

Re: Why no HiDPI in Windows 7?

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:06 pm
by MT_
Arne Scheffler wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:36 pm
No, Windows 7 and Windows 10 have totally different HiDPI implementations. For example there no support for multiple displays with different DPI on Windows 7, but that's only one of many things missing in Windows 7.
Most of Windows-API features are cumulative. So everything available in Windows 7 is also available in more recent Windows versions, so support in W7 and W10 cannot be totally different, it can be just extended in W10.

Per-Monitor DPI Awareness is not as important as support for HiDPI itself. For basic DPI awareness, all you need is:
  • determine pixel ratio by dividing `GetDeviceCaps(GetDC(window), LOGPIXELSX)` by default 96;
  • multiply all the UI-element’s sizes and coordinates by that ratio with proportional upscaling of bitmap graphics where needed;
  • declare DPI awareness: either via executable’s manifest (`<dpiAware>true</dpiAware>`) or by calling `SetProcessDPIAware()`.
Or does Cubase 10 use Windows 10’s automatic scaling stuff like `EnableNonClientDpiScaling()` without actually supporting true HiDPI?

Fwiw, according to StatCounter, market share of Windows 7 is 70% of Windows 10’s market share (36.31% vs. 51.94%). According to NetMarketShare, the difference is even smaller: Windows 7’s market share is 84% of Windows 10’s one (35.27% vs. 41.82%).

Re: Why no HiDPI in Windows 7?

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:29 am
by Arne Scheffler
You're funny, you want to tell me about HiDPI Windows API.
So if you're interested read this: https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/ ... rs-update/
and this https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/ ... ry-update/
and there is still more stuff that are only visible in the msdn docs about stuff not available in Windows 7.

Have a nice Weekend,
Arne