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Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core (14+ cores)

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:47 pm
by Fabio Bartolini
Hi everyone,

with Cubase 10, the way resources are addressed and used changed in order to overcome the much discussed MMCSS limitation and generally improve performance on high core-count machines.

If you have a CPU with 16 or more logical cores and have already updated, it would be great if you could could give us a short feedback: a post here, a mail to support (with a 'FW to Fabio') or a PM to me are all fine. Of course, any changes you applied (audioengine.properties file, disabling HT or registry key) need to be reversed before checking this out - this could affect previous versions of Cubase installed on the same system [edit: more details here viewtopic.php?f=283&t=147175&p=791679#p791732]. Please do that only when time allows and NOT if you are on a tight schedule.

To those who were already in contact with me for trouble-shooting, analysis, tweaking, etc.: I'll soon get back to you, I'm in the process of checking my cases and collect data.

Thank you!

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:25 pm
by gmontano
What is the best way to back out the previous fix? 6950x processor here. Thanks.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:30 pm
by samplefuel
I have been using JBridge to work around the MMCSS limitation. Is there still a limit or just an improvement? Do I still need to use JBridge at this point?

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:50 pm
by Fabio Bartolini
How to roll back the fixes:

If you applied the Registry Key: follow the previous instructions to find the key you have created, select it, right-click and delete the key.
--> Remember: I can't post it here ;-)

If you used the audioengine.properties file: you don't need to do anything, it is saved in the previos version's preferences, and it still needs it.

Those who preferred to disable hyper-threading may want to re-enable it.

The MMCSS limitation exists of course, but the audio engine spawns threads in a very different way and should not affect Cubase. I say 'should' because on a limited amount of configurations issues may still be experienced. Way to long and complicated for a post, but if the issue kicks in, it is possible to improve, if not fix it completely. Those having MMCSS-related performance issues with Pro 10 should contact support.
The issue should be no more in the majority of cases, though - meaning undoing the fixes were needed is the only thing one needs to do.
[Edited]

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:07 pm
by Antonym68
Is Cubase 10 compatible with Intel Turbo Boost?

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:10 pm
by Fabio Bartolini
Turbo Boost is a motherboard / CPU feature, so Cubase is not 'compatible' or 'not compatible'. As long as it works fine with the other system modules / features, Cubase will use the power available. I'm personally keep it enabled since Intel Gen.3 and only disable it for trouble-shooting (users' cases) and testing.

Please, keep this on topic - I posted this to collect specific data about MMCSS. Thank you.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:22 pm
by Antonym68
OK, many thanks and sorry for going off topic

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:04 pm
by deathhimself
Is multi-thread performance also supposed to be enhanced in windows 7 ?

(title of thread has me thinking otherwise)

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:12 pm
by uarte
Thank you, Fabio, I look forward to testing Cubase 10's new multi-core/thread improvements. You've been very helpful about the prior issues, which is very much appreciated! Will report back when I get a chance to test it!

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:05 pm
by Fabio Bartolini
deathhimself wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:04 pm
Is multi-thread performance also supposed to be enhanced in windows 7 ?

(title of thread has me thinking otherwise)
Yes, multi-core performance is a general improvement.

I specified Win 10 because the MMCSS limitation does not affect operation on Win 7, 8 and 8.1 - previous references can be found here:
https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... CPU-setups
viewtopic.php?f=250&t=117319

Oh, and thanks, uarte!

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:05 am
by Al Junior
Hi. 20 cores 40 threads here! I thank the team for the excellent work. There are performance improvements. ASIO meter now works without spikes and clicks.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:23 am
by waxxy
Fabio Bartolini wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:50 pm
How to roll back the fixes:

If you applied the Registry Key: follow the previous instructions to find the key you have created, select it, right-click and delete the key.
--> Remember: I can't post it here ;-)

If you used the audioengine.properties file: you don't need to do anything, it is saved in the previos version's preferences, and it still needs it.

Those who preferred to disable hyper-threading may want to re-enable it.

The MMCSS limitation exists of course, but the audio engine spawns threads in a very different way and should not affect Cubase. I say 'should' because on a limited amount of configurations issues may still be experienced. Way to long and complicated for a post, but if the issue kicks in, it is possible to improve, if not fix it completely. Those having MMCSS-related performance issues with Pro 10 should contact support.
The issue should be no more in the majority of cases, though - meaning undoing the fixes were needed is the only thing one needs to do.
[Edited]
can you pm me how to reverse what I used for Cubase 9.5.
in the previous version I had pops and clicks and very poor asio it was great for ages then a windows update and future Cubase update totally screwed everything up so I was advised to use the registry edit and the cmd edit.


my computer spec is---

windows 10 build 1803
intel core i7-5820k @3.30ghz
32gb ram
audio interface-- uad apollo twin usb

also what options within cubase 10 do you recommend i use ?do u use steinberg power scheme..etc ?
thanks

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:15 pm
by uarte
Just installed Cubase 10 on my 10-core (20-thread) on Win 10. First impression is that the new multi-threading model is indeed better! Will be playing with it more, but this is starting out positively for me. Hope these improvements will make it over to Nuendo soon too.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:51 pm
by siraltus
I just re-enabled hyperthreading on my 12-core i9 7920X and will be doing some testing. :)

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:51 pm
by cinematree
I'm on an i9 7940 (14 core 28 thread) and Cubase 10 is working great. I removed the registry fix and I'm able to turn on Hyper-threading which lets me have more plugins on my master channel and more headroom before maxing out the system. Awesome!

I haven't tried playing with the Steinberg Power Scheme but I'm curious if it would help. Anyone have any idea about AVX BIOS settings and what is optimal for Cubase 10?

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:47 am
by ZeroZero
Buying a CPU with Cubase 10 in mind. would users think an intel 8700k (i7) or 9900K i9) would perform better? Is the i9 worth the leap?
I intend to buy on black Friday

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:38 pm
by Fabio Bartolini
ZeroZero, replied to this via PM. Can we please keep this thread about feedback? Thanks a lot - feel free to start a thread in the Computer Setup, perhaps some users have that CPU already!

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:12 pm
by mashipx
i7800k cpu.. speedstepping and turbo mode enabled, but C states still disabled just incase, 32 gig ram.. multiprocessing enabled along with asio guard. ive been able to reduce buffer sizes to lower latency and all seems good so far, no pops or clips.
i was expecting to see te audio performance meter drop a bit. i assuming there is no link between internall processing and the meter... just thought there would be a show???.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:44 am
by davidobjay
Fabio (and interested others), I'm posting a link to a new thread I started regrading Windows 7 64bit and my issues with very problematic multi core usage of my 6950x (10 core) and Cubase 10. Cubase 9.5 worked perfectly.

viewtopic.php?f=286&t=147780&p=794536#p794536

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:33 pm
by noiseboyuk
Just some feedback - I have an 8 core HT 7820X o/c to static 4.3ghz in W10 Pro. On paper my performance should have increased 12.5% in a jump from 7 cores to 8, and in practice I think that's pretty plausible. I have one especially intensive project laden with hungry soft synths that used to break up on AG2 set to low in C9, thus far it's played it fine in C10 - just. The meters are still very high, so it's not a massive difference, but I'll take every single .1% of that 12.5% improvement! So from my perspective - fixed, and thanks.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:20 pm
by GeoMax
I am running two Windows 10 systems 6950x(10core) and 5960x(8core). I had hyperthreading turned off on both. I turned it back on for both and there was no issue as all. It basically cut the CPU idle % by 40-50%. I havent loaded up a large project to stress test it, but overall I think Cubase 10 feels snappier. So, I am happy with that. :)

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:48 pm
by Dudelstudio
I did a few quick tests after reversing the registry fix.
I noticed right away that the ASIO Performance meter was acting pretty wild and hitting the red every few seconds with one instance of Avenger and just simple presets.
But there were actually no audible glitches, even if i hit the polyphony very hard.
May i add that i am using extremely low buffer settings of 48 samples wich has worked with the now obsolete workarounds that have been available for High Core count processors.
My theory is that the current ASIO Spikes are just cosmetic in nature and not a true performance issue.

Tonight i will record a session with some more tracks and plugins (no avenger this time)and will keep you updated if it works reliable.

In the past it was always the case when using HT you had to use a higher buffer to take advantage of the threads. Especially with ASIO Guard on i did noticed huge gains on my old 6 Core Gulftown Intel.

As of now i have ASIO GUard off as it gives me a truer representation of performance differences between CPU Modes. Also i must admit that even bigger Projects didn`t stutter even when limiting the core counts on C9.5.
So no need for ASIO Guard yet for me.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:57 pm
by ctothel
Is there any improvement in performance on computers with less cores? I have 10 cores for instance.

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:48 pm
by TheodorEriksen
Cool :-)

Re: Cubase 10, Windows 10 and multi-core

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:22 am
by etl17
Sorry for the silly question, but I can't recall if I have ever applied the "registry fix".
Where can I find the info regarding the key etc. so I can check if my registry edits need to be reversed?

Thanks.