Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

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GlennO
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by GlennO »

There are many operations for which a control surface is far superior to a mouse. Try riding two faders at once with a mouse :). Steinberg is lagging a bit and not keeping up with the newest features in Eucon, but for the basic functions it works great.
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by beatpete »

OxygenBeats wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:08 am
miguelnunes wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:55 pm
Im on every forum trying to protect my investment for the future, some people play with daws, others make a living out of those. Do you have some kind of problem with that?
Oh are you an amateur? I thought I was talking with another professional, albeit an inferior one.

Get good with the mouse like this and then talk to me about how a mouse can never work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiCwEBrZHwA

99% chance you're just a troll.
Arrogance is bliss I guess...
Comp1: Windows 10 64 bit, Asus X99-A USB 3.1, I7 5930K (running at 4500 MHz), 32 gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 ram, Radeon HD5450 graphics, RME Digiface, Steinberg UR824 and MR816x (X2)
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by OxygenBeats »

fuzzydude wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:22 pm
Carpal tunnel is a very real issue for those of us who've used a mouse extensively for years. As I have found, a control surface massively helped here. Even with all the issues with Eucon, it's still better (long term) than using a mouse alone. I cant imagine going back to mouse only, just thinking about it and my hand starts to cramp inwards lol.
That's a legitimate concern. I would suggest you get an extra thick mouse pad like this one that I have:

https://steelseries.com/gaming-mousepad ... eavy-large

I was having a lot of pain in my hands for a while, and after using this mouse pad, I no longer have any issues. I used to actually buy extra thick socks and cut holes in them so I can wear around my wrists like a glove that would cover my forewarm and wrist but would leave my fingers exposed so as not to restrict movement. That worked pretty well too, but the extra thick mouse pad has made the biggest difference. I no longer need any gloves or anything, and I'm perfectly fine.

I should also mention that (since I didn't need the extra height of the pad) I cut out a portion of the pad on the top and used that to pad my hands for when they're placed at the keyboard too. Ohh, and when moving the mouse you should leave enough room on the desktop to rest your forearm, that way your weight can be distributed more evenly and not be focused on the wrist. (It's easier to do this when you get rid of unnecessary external controllers)

We need to be mindful of the surfaces we use day and day out. The thickness and the fabric you use makes a big difference as well as your work space and weight distribution.
Last edited by OxygenBeats on Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by OxygenBeats »

beatpete wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:35 pm
OxygenBeats wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:08 am
miguelnunes wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:55 pm
Im on every forum trying to protect my investment for the future, some people play with daws, others make a living out of those. Do you have some kind of problem with that?
Oh are you an amateur? I thought I was talking with another professional, albeit an inferior one.

Get good with the mouse like this and then talk to me about how a mouse can never work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiCwEBrZHwA

99% chance you're just a troll.
Arrogance is bliss I guess...
Being a jackass is bliss I guess...

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OxygenBeats
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by OxygenBeats »

GlennO wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:22 pm
There are many operations for which a control surface is far superior to a mouse. Try riding two faders at once with a mouse :). Steinberg is lagging a bit and not keeping up with the newest features in Eucon, but for the basic functions it works great.
It's not really hard when you think about it. You can very quickly create VCA Fader to control multiple faders at once. I mean, quite often I find that mouse operations are more powerful than physical faders. Try moving 300 faders by hand for instance.

Also, this may not apply to you, but I use a LOT of automation. Half or more of tracks either can't be adjusted anyway due to the automation, or I could risk accidentally overwriting important automation. Most consoles don't display automation. That means I'd have to go into Cubase to check and by that time, since I'm already right there with the mouse, I may as well adjust the levels by hand via mouse.

Of course, if you still have issues with the mouse, what I had suggested a while ago is getting a touch screen. But to each their own. Everyone can have their own preferences and workflows. Not trying to make people mad, they are just choosing to be mad.

Finally, what 'newest features' is Steinberg lagging a bit in with regards to Eucon?

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

The FIRST LAW OF CONTROLLER DESIGN SHOULD BE TO HAVE THE HARDWARE ALWAYS FOLLOW THE DAW SCREEN and vice versa!! It is ridiculous the amount of hours I've had to spend developing workarounds just to combat this one issue!

Nuendo gives you 8 Visibility Agents, though you can write as many as you like. But only the 1st 8 can be launched with a single button. For some reason, they won't allow a Key Command option for additional Agents. Eucon allows 48 Layouts on the Artist Series and double that for the S Series. I had to write 8 Macros to connect 8 matching layouts to the Visibility Agents. If the Agent used more tracks than I had faders available, I had to write a second layout to cover those additional tracks and toggle between the 2. Now, if I add or subtract tracks for whatever reason, all my work is now useless because the layout is fixed. It's insane! :x Who has time to keep writing layouts to keep up with the constantly changing views that will occur during any phase of the process?

Hide Selected Tracks, Channel Expand, Folders, ALL FEATURES DESIGNED TO SPEED UP WORK-FLOW, become impediments when working with the hardware all because the board won't follow the DAW! The result is most users give up one or the other because of this stand off.

Any of the guys I know using Eucon hardware tell me that they: 1) Just use the faders, Solo/Mutes, Channel Select and Pans. 2) Switched to Pro Tools so that they could use the entire hardware. Both options are unacceptable. EUCON is supposed to work with ALL of the DAWs, that's it's primary selling point. Now that Avid owns it, all of us Cubase, DP, Logic, Nuendo, etc Users become increasingly screwed on our investments with each iteration.

Just because our markets won't justify $35 - $150K expenditures for hardware, doesn't mean the thousands we did spend came cheap to us! We bought this stuff to HELP!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE FIX THIS!!! :? :cry:
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Ed Shearmur »

As a recent migrant from DP, I would like to add my voice to those asking for better EUCON implementation. I have multiple Eucon controllers at my studio including an S6 and can't believe how little functionality I get from Cubase. The situation with DP was no better. I eventually paid an ex Motu programmer to write a custom driver for me. Perhaps that's what's needed here...!

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Elien »

I find it absolutely strange and basically a kind of hijacking a thread when people start to discuss the general usefulness of a hardware controller and their personal preference to edit with mouse and/or keycommands in a thread that originally contained a well founded complaint about Steinberg (and Avid) ignoring their user-base with EUCON-Controllers! Steinberg has used the EUCON-Compatibility as a selling argument for Cubase in the past. There is a clear obligation resulting from this.

The thread would deserve a clear statement from Steinberg when they will come up with an improved version for EUCON that at least includes synchronization of mixer visibilities.
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

Ed Shearmur wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:11 pm
As a recent migrant from DP, I would like to add my voice to those asking for better EUCON implementation. I have multiple Eucon controllers at my studio including an S6 and can't believe how little functionality I get from Cubase. The situation with DP was no better. I eventually paid an ex Motu programmer to write a custom driver for me. Perhaps that's what's needed here...!

Wait, are you saying that the S6 won't follow the DAW screen for Cubase/Nuendo?!!?
Nuendo 1.0 - 10 |VST Studio Connect Pro | Windows 10 Pro | Intel i9 - 9900K CPU @ 3.60 | 64-bit OS | 32GB of RAM |RME HDSPe RayDAT | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti Video Card | Euphonix MC Control, 2 Mix & Transport | Xkeys | iConnectivity mi10 MIDI Interface | UAD-2 Octo Core with UAD-1 Legacy Ultra Pak | Isotope RX4 | Melodyne 3.2 | Voxengo Plugins | Real Guitar | B4 II | EZ Drummer | Drumagog 4 | Virtual Guitarist 2 | Korg, Roland, Kurzweil Synths | Apogee Big Ben | 32 Channel Panasonic DA-7 desk | Equator D5 (5.1) & Mackie 824 (St.) monitors | VS-1680 & 880 HDR's |

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Outsounder »

The best way to achieve to the get the updates that are needed to the Steinberg SDK to bring Eucon up to date is to lobby Steinberg directly by emailing support. I have been doing it for a while now and have been told it's almost ready and be be part of "the next update or the one after" of course those updates have come an gone so more emails to support are required!
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Elien »

Outsounder - thank you for the information and even more for your effort. And of course for the hint!

Thx, Ernst
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

Ed Shearmur wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:11 pm
As a recent migrant from DP, I would like to add my voice to those asking for better EUCON implementation. I have multiple Eucon controllers at my studio including an S6 and can't believe how little functionality I get from Cubase. The situation with DP was no better. I eventually paid an ex Motu programmer to write a custom driver for me. Perhaps that's what's needed here...!
Any chance we could find a Steinberg Programmer to write a custom driver for us? How much would that cost?
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by ensoniq_ts10 »

Huh ? I thought Eucon is avid
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Outsounder »

So what's your excuse this time Steinberg? Or is it gonna be another statement it's going to be in the next or next but one upgrade just like you said at the start of the year?
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

ensoniq_ts10 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:17 am
Huh ? I thought Eucon is avid
Avid has made it perfectly clear that THEY PURCHASED EUPHONIX ASSETS FOR THEMSELVES! Every non Pro Tools related issue brought to their attention is responded with "Talk to Steinberg, " Talk to Logic, " Talk to....whomever!"

There is barely any effort attending to PT Users complaints (just follow all of the blistering complaints about 19.5 to see what I mean. My system was actually stable at 18.3 then my iPad updated automatically to 19.5. So it no longer works with my stable 18.3! It will not let me roll back! Now, my iPad is a paper weight!). So, we have no other recourse but to PLEAD with our respective providers to address this critical issue.
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

BTW, does anyone know if the hardware will follow Pro Tools bidirectional 100%?
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by beatpete »

Keyplayer wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:42 pm
My system was actually stable at 18.3 then my iPad updated automatically to 19.5. So it no longer works with my stable 18.3! It will not let me roll back! Now, my iPad is a paper weight!).
Have you installed 19.7(1) yet? It resolves the Ipad issue (for me anyway).
Comp1: Windows 10 64 bit, Asus X99-A USB 3.1, I7 5930K (running at 4500 MHz), 32 gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 ram, Radeon HD5450 graphics, RME Digiface, Steinberg UR824 and MR816x (X2)
(connected to Digiface), Cubase 10.5 64bit
Comp 2: Windows 10 64bit, I5 3450,32 gb ram, VEPro 7.

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

beatpete wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:12 pm
Keyplayer wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:42 pm
My system was actually stable at 18.3 then my iPad updated automatically to 19.5. So it no longer works with my stable 18.3! It will not let me roll back! Now, my iPad is a paper weight!).
Have you installed 19.7(1) yet? It resolves the Ipad issue (for me anyway).
Really? I've been monitoring the forum waiting for just this kind of news and all I've been seeing is horror stories about other bugs in 19.7. The moderator said they were known issues and were trying to resolve them.
See here: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=406213
Granted this is with Logic. But that was enough to scare me off.

Can you use the tracks page on PT Control without crashing Eucon or Nuendo?
That was my other gigantic problem.
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by beatpete »

I guess you're right. I never use the tracks page, I have a Artist Mix which I use for most things and I really only use the Ipad for inserting plugins (soft keys page). I tried using the tracks page and Cubase crashed immediately with the dreaded "too many eucon channels" message
which I haven't seen for months with my normal workflow.
Comp1: Windows 10 64 bit, Asus X99-A USB 3.1, I7 5930K (running at 4500 MHz), 32 gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 ram, Radeon HD5450 graphics, RME Digiface, Steinberg UR824 and MR816x (X2)
(connected to Digiface), Cubase 10.5 64bit
Comp 2: Windows 10 64bit, I5 3450,32 gb ram, VEPro 7.

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by jconstantine »

19.9 is out and includes appsets for Cubase 7-8 and Nuendo.
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

jconstantine wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:48 am
19.9 is out and includes appsets for Cubase 7-8 and Nuendo.
Does this version WORK without crashing on the tracks page? 😮
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by beatpete »

I just tested and it still crashes on the tracks page with Pro Control.
I'm not sure if the appsets for Cubase are anything new.
Comp1: Windows 10 64 bit, Asus X99-A USB 3.1, I7 5930K (running at 4500 MHz), 32 gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 ram, Radeon HD5450 graphics, RME Digiface, Steinberg UR824 and MR816x (X2)
(connected to Digiface), Cubase 10.5 64bit
Comp 2: Windows 10 64bit, I5 3450,32 gb ram, VEPro 7.

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

beatpete wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:18 pm
I just tested and it still crashes on the tracks page with Pro Control.
I'm not sure if the appsets for Cubase are anything new.
Well, that's disappointing but not unexpected! 😥😢😭😭😭
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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by Keyplayer »

Keyplayer wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:40 am
Ed Shearmur wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:11 pm
As a recent migrant from DP, I would like to add my voice to those asking for better EUCON implementation. I have multiple Eucon controllers at my studio including an S6 and can't believe how little functionality I get from Cubase. The situation with DP was no better. I eventually paid an ex Motu programmer to write a custom driver for me. Perhaps that's what's needed here...!

Wait, are you saying that the S6 won't follow the DAW screen for Cubase/Nuendo?!!?
I would still like an answer to this question.
Nuendo 1.0 - 10 |VST Studio Connect Pro | Windows 10 Pro | Intel i9 - 9900K CPU @ 3.60 | 64-bit OS | 32GB of RAM |RME HDSPe RayDAT | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti Video Card | Euphonix MC Control, 2 Mix & Transport | Xkeys | iConnectivity mi10 MIDI Interface | UAD-2 Octo Core with UAD-1 Legacy Ultra Pak | Isotope RX4 | Melodyne 3.2 | Voxengo Plugins | Real Guitar | B4 II | EZ Drummer | Drumagog 4 | Virtual Guitarist 2 | Korg, Roland, Kurzweil Synths | Apogee Big Ben | 32 Channel Panasonic DA-7 desk | Equator D5 (5.1) & Mackie 824 (St.) monitors | VS-1680 & 880 HDR's |

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Re: Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Post by jconstantine »

I installed it today and can not have my artist working because of this:
"eucon client cannot access the bonjour service"

Any ideas?
Windows 10 64 ,i7 7700k 4.2 Ghz,32 RAM DDR4,Asus Prime Z270-A ,Nvidia GForce GT710,SSD 250 GB,RME UFX+,RME AIO,Apollo 8,Macbook Air i5 2017,Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab 9.5, Halion 6, GA4,Pro Tools 12.8, UAD 2, SSL Native, Waves Gold,hardware synths & samplers.
Kronos2, Avid Artist Mix,Yamaha 01v96i,NS10,Behritone,Genelec 8050a and VXT8

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