Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by jaslan » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:47 am

Assange_isNotNeo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:43 am
What is the latest version supported on windows 7? The number please?
The current version. 10.0.30.
Or do you mean the latest version that WILL be supported? 10.0.50.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Assange_isNotNeo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:06 am

jaslan wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:47 am
Assange_isNotNeo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:43 am
What is the latest version supported on windows 7? The number please?
The current version. 10.0.30.
Or do you mean the latest version that WILL be supported? 10.0.50.
The latest windows 7 version supported.

Do you mean the 10.0.50 version will be the last windows 7 supported?

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by sd1989 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:00 am

i hope they will test the next maintenance updates for Steinberg vst such as halion 6 with windows 7 and 8.1 and also windows 8.1 has until 2023 for until Microsoft stops support for it i don't really like this change
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by svennilenni » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:40 am

Assange_isNotNeo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:06 am

The latest windows 7 version supported.

Do you mean the 10.0.50 version will be the last windows 7 supported?
Simply re-read Matthias Quellman´s Posts. :roll:

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Guillermo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:40 am

Hello,
Assange_isNotNeo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:06 am
jaslan wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:47 am
Assange_isNotNeo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:43 am
What is the latest version supported on windows 7? The number please?
The current version. 10.0.30.
Or do you mean the latest version that WILL be supported? 10.0.50.
The latest windows 7 version supported.

Do you mean the 10.0.50 version will be the last windows 7 supported?
I will just quite Matthias on this one: "The upcoming maintenance updates for Cubase 10 will still be tested on Windows 7 and 8, but Cubase 10.5 will only support Windows 10. We decided to announce our future strategy as soon as possible to give all of you still running W7 or W8 system enough time to prepare."

That means that the upcoming Cubase 10.0.40 will be supported on Windows 7 and 8, and in case there is a Cubase 10.0.50 that will be the same.

If you want to keep discussing about Microsoft and the future of operating systems, please feel free to do so at the lounge.

Best regards,
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by MrSoundman » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:17 pm

Assange_isNotNeo wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:43 am
What is the latest version supported on windows 7? The number please?
10.0.30
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Assange_isNotNeo » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:52 am

Thanks guys. I'm glad they will support Cubase 10 on win 7 all the way. Don't know where i got mixed up but that makes more sense that way.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by silhouette » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:36 pm

svennilenni wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:53 pm
silhouette wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:50 pm
I'm sorry but I don't think this is unacceptable.
Great!
I actually mean't to say I'm sorry but I don't think this is acceptable.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by maggie » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:42 am

+1000,

It's about time. Windows 7/8 are dead.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by raino » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 pm

maggie wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:42 am
+1000,

It's about time. Windows 7/8 are dead.
Sounds good, unless your current hardware cannot be successfully upgraded to Windows 10. Other than that my DAW does everything I need - so should I buy a new computer solely to migrate to 10? Yeah, sounds silly to me too.

When I found out I'd be on 7 for the useful life of the hardware I understood that one thing that could limit that useful life was software compatibility. But every computer eventually breaks down - either the hardware or the software. When that happens then it is time to replace.

Steinberg's announcement doesn't really change much. The overwhelming odds are that my windows 7 PC will run future versions of Cubase just fine until a hardware problem forces me to buy a new PC. And if I run into a software/OS problem before that happens? Guess that means it is time to buy a new PC.

So far, nothing is broken so no need to fix anything.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by skijumptoes » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:31 pm

raino wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 pm
Sounds good, unless your current hardware cannot be successfully upgraded to Windows 10. Other than that my DAW does everything I need - so should I buy a new computer solely to migrate to 10? Yeah, sounds silly to me too.
If your hardware is that old then it isn't going to cope with future features in Cubase anyway so is a null point. Win 7 will be 10 years old when support is dropped. And if your Win 7 machine does 'everything' you need right now, then you're golden as the hardware dongle doesn't require internet access to stay 'live'... presuming that you won't be going online with an exploitable OS.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Prock » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:37 am

Sounds good to me.
Cubase will only get better when development & testing is concentrated on the latest OS.

Regards. 8-)
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by peakae » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:46 am

As far as I remember there is a new midi api in win10, now that can finally be utilized.
I have yet to come across a PC that couldn’t run win10. Some might need some tinkering, mainly driver updates and BiOS updates. Anything that speeds up development or results in more stable releases, I’m all for.
This could potentially do both.
Thumbs up.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by skijumptoes » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:50 am

Guest wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 am
What makes you think it wasn't testing it on Win7 that lead them to the conclusion they've given us?
It's more to do with resources and costs, why spend money supporting a 10 year old OS that could hold back future developments and movement into newer technology that can utilise functions on a hardware level? This is a stake in the ground for Steinberg and a heads-up for Win 7/8 users of their plans.

I'm pretty sure that they will respond to any application breaking bugs in win 7 'where they can' as part of goodwill, but they won't be recommending or supporting users in an official capacity. As they move to newer API's, incompatibly with older OS's are sure to arise - i think that's the point -steve- is making, but until 10.5 releases they won't fully know. Many API's do have compatibility options, but it gets messy when you start adjusting builds for obsolete OS's.

Mac users went through the same process with the Metal API, applications that utilised it had to have a GPU that supported it.. So Apple made it a requirement for their OS, 10 Years of Win 7, really is something Apple users would love - Logic for example requres MacOS High Sierra (2017). And Cubase you have to be running MacOS Sierra (2016). Compare that to supporting an OS which goes back to 2009 and the multitude of issues that 'could' show up when moving to newer frameworks - well, they'd have to go in and test it all to tell you 'what' doesn't work.

But what's key in the question you've asked is that it's only relevant in the final build to give you a definitive answer. In it's current state, C10.5 may not even start in Win 7, or is very buggy generally. But as Steinberg products are cross platform it will be their own Frameworks which may be tweaked globally to allow Win 7 users to run future versions - really depends on the amount of work i guess. So it's very complicated for them to tell you 'what' works or doesn't.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Guest » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:04 am

skijumptoes wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:50 am
Guest wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 am
What makes you think it wasn't testing it on Win7 that lead them to the conclusion they've given us?
It's more to do with resources and costs,
What are the resources and costs to installing a program on a Win7 desktop and seeing if new features work?

A large number of people still use Win7, not everyone will be able to transfer over right away - which actually means a potential loss in sales. Besides, they have beta testers, beta testers who run Win7, so I know it was tested. It was tested. As -Steve- pointed out, some things definitely will not work for Win7.. which means.. it was tested. :lol:

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Starsprinkler » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:25 am

Guest wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:50 am
Is it possible to get some information on exactly what we are looking at in terms of planned features that won't be working?
One example of things that wont work for Win7 for sure is HiDPI support. Currently there is only limited HiDPI support for Win10, but they have written they will continue to work on that, so it's expected to have full HiDPI support also for Windows (hopefully with C10.5).
But if you are on Win7, just forget about it. As now, but also for all future.
Matthias Quellmann wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:09 pm
various technologies are only supported under Windows 10; and, most importantly, Windows 10 ensures the quality and effectiveness of Steinberg products"
Which says that more things wont work with Win7. It's already known that these underlying technologies, which Cubase will depend on, need Win10 to work as expected. So Win7 can simply not be used (at least not without several limitations).
There's a technological advance and it can not be stopped by holding on to the old.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by skijumptoes » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:34 am

Guest wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:04 am
What are the resources and costs to installing a program on a Win7 desktop and seeing if new features work?
So you think it's a good idea that Steinberg will get someone to load up the finished version on Win 7 and write out a list for the community to say what works and what doesn't? ...Based on one machine/one user?

Firstly, what use is that to anyone right now?, and secondly, why would they do it when they've already said they're not supporting Win 7? The Resources and costs come in to play when they're actively checking Win 7 compatibility across multiple machines and workflows, and feeding that back into the development of C10.5 onwards. A professional company would have to operate in that way if they put out any kind of notification regarding Win 7 - but they're not supporting it, so totally nullified.

'If' C10.5 runs on Win 7 then the community is far better placed to carry out such testing and report to other users, Steinberg have supported Win 7 since V5, and they specifically designed v6 with Win 7 (64bit) in mind and added VST 3.5, C10.5 is going to be the same kind of move where Win 10 is the primary focus. What matters most is here is what they can utilise going forwards, and shed the skin of a 10 year old OS.
A large number of people still use Win7, not everyone will be able to transfer over right away
Yes they can, large majority of users can easily move to Win10.

They've had many years to do so already, and C10 isn't going to magically break if they decide to take another 12/24 months to upgrade either. Why should their be a sudden immediate panic to 'transfer over right away' after sitting dormant on a 10 year old OS anyway?
Which actually means a potential loss in sales.
Improving a product and updating it to the latest technology will have the opposite effect, would you rather see a C10.5 that runs slicker and offers new features? Or just continue supporting Win 7 which obstructs that path?
Besides, they have beta testers, beta testers who run Win7, so I know it was tested. It was tested. As -Steve- pointed out, some things definitely will not work for Win7.. which means.. it was tested. :lol:
But you're asking for them to specifically tell you of new features and what is and isn't working with them, and you're not going to get that for the reasons i've pointed out.

The product hasn't even been finalised yet - so again, what's the point of beta testing feedback being thrown around the forums? If you want to be running C10.5 and receive support then get on Win 10 - that's the message, can't be any clearer.
If it's a sneaky question so you can find out which new features are being added to C10.5, then you'll just have to be patient.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by RichardTownsend » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:55 pm

Guest wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:04 am
skijumptoes wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:50 am
Guest wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 am
What makes you think it wasn't testing it on Win7 that lead them to the conclusion they've given us?
It's more to do with resources and costs,
What are the resources and costs to installing a program on a Win7 desktop and seeing if new features work?

A large number of people still use Win7, not everyone will be able to transfer over right away - which actually means a potential loss in sales. Besides, they have beta testers, beta testers who run Win7, so I know it was tested. It was tested. As -Steve- pointed out, some things definitely will not work for Win7.. which means.. it was tested. :lol:
No, they’ve probably used some new operating system features that are only supported in win 10, so they know immediately it won’t work in 7.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by raino » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:51 pm

skijumptoes wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:31 pm
raino wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 pm
Sounds good, unless your current hardware cannot be successfully upgraded to Windows 10. Other than that my DAW does everything I need - so should I buy a new computer solely to migrate to 10? Yeah, sounds silly to me too.
If your hardware is that old then it isn't going to cope with future features in Cubase anyway so is a null point. Win 7 will be 10 years old when support is dropped. And if your Win 7 machine does 'everything' you need right now, then you're golden as the hardware dongle doesn't require internet access to stay 'live'... presuming that you won't be going online with an exploitable OS.
Exactly. And I honestly never expected to still be using this same PC. But as long as it continues to function and meet my needs... Especially when you know that waiting means the capabilities get better & cheaper :D

That said I certainly would consider a desirable Cubase capability as reason to get a shiny new PC (but my DAW builder went out of business & finding a new one is just another minor barrier to upgrading :( ).

Seems to me that when MS drops support for an OS we can't really expect developers to maintain support for that OS. Maybe some do maintain that support for various reasons, but that can't be a baseline expectation.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by skijumptoes » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:21 pm

I hope we'll see some general improvements if they are changing the codebase - but this could purely be a money/cost thing in regards to support and testing.

Or, as mentioned before it could just be something simple like HiDPI functionality that doesn't work in Win 7 that has brought on this announcement. We'll find out end of year, and you can have more 'fun' (English sarcasm there!) losing time to Win 10 upgrades if there's anything juicy in 10.5! ;)
Last edited by skijumptoes on Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by -steve- » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:21 pm

Or, it's all of the above.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Starsprinkler » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:10 pm

... And it should also mean a lot of hours saved onwards for both developers and testers when support is dropped for three (3) additional operating systems (Win7, Win8, Win8.1). No more need to do testing cycles on these systems, but also no more need to "waste" developer hours to have these systems into consideration and troubleshoot issues that may arise from them.
And not hindering use of some more modern technologies.

That should turn productivity up a little bit, since all those saved hours can be spent on more productive things, e.g. developing features and squashing other bugs (none related to old operating systems). And since testing will require less work/time, maybe they could have updates a little more often? Or test more things in the testing cycle.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by MrSoundman » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Starsprinkler wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:10 pm
That should turn productivity up a little bit
... or they could just fire a lot of software testers. My contribution to all this speculation is that dropping the old Windows versions should free up developers to concentrate on an upcoming Cubase for Linux.

That said, seeing as I'm on Windows 10, Cubase 9 and 10 have been absolutely solid for me, and both Windows 10 and Cubase just seem to keep getting better in terms of stability and "snappiness". Sure, I have other gripes, but they are largely matters of taste (don't get me started on the right-click toolbox!), so I have to say to everyone not yet on Windows 10: just do it.

Some suggestions to ease the pain: dual-boot or use an additional boot disk so you can switch back and forth until you're completely happy with the transition. Without going into too much technical detail here in this thread, it's relatively easy and cheap to back up everything, fit an additional harddisk and change the boot order in the BIOS. You can disable the port your current harddisk is on to protect it. Install Windows 10 on the new disk. You can switch back and forth by switching the boot disk in the BIOS.

Slightly more involved is dual- or multi-booting, where you can have multiple OSes on different partitions of the same disk, but it works wonderfully once set up properly. I have one laptop with Windows 10, Windows 7 and a minimal Windows XP for really old stuff and I can pick the OS from a boot menu using BootIt, which also has a utility for creating image backups of individual partitions and even entire disks.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by dawtuition.com » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:26 pm

$150 dollars for Windows 10 upgrade. Old keys not accepted. LOL

https://pureinfotech.com/upgrade-to-win ... windows-7/

$150 dollars for spyware and Cortana. No thanks.

Just like Windows 10 will be around forever, so will win 7. Rethink this one Steinberg, honestly rethink it.

You going to lose ALOT of customers.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by skijumptoes » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:25 am

dawtuition.com wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:26 pm
Just like Windows 10 will be around forever, so will win 7. Rethink this one Steinberg, honestly rethink it.
You going to lose ALOT of customers.
Don't be so silly, they will lose far more active customers if they're not evolving the product. Plus they will fail to attract new customers. You won't suddenly lose the ability to run Cubase 10.0.x and it won't deteriorate in any way.

If you're happy to stick with a 10 year old OS, then why is it so hard to use a 1-2 year old DAW once C10.5 and C11 comes out? You either want progression or not, and no-one is being forced to upgrade - if you want to stick with what you have, then do so. If you want improvements then upgrade, it's a very simple logic, and takes a matter of hours. You're months away from running an insecure/exploitable OS which will start to lose online services radically - which isn't great if you're running a cloud service for archive/backup or frequently going online with it.

Actually, you probably aren't using online/cloud as you've mentioned fear of being spied on.

If you're scared of Win 10 and Cortana, then best cut your bank and store cards up, wear a bag on your head when you're walking or driving, blank your numberplate, throw your phone off a cliff, cancel your internet and cover your house in a foil dome to prevent any hardware directly seeking a wifi/4g signal to track activity.

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