Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by ensoniq_ts10 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:30 am

Ouch.
Good thing I’m on windows 10,
but everyone else I work with in the industry are on windows 7
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Windows 7 end of life Support for Cubase 10

Post by Michel Doucet » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:43 pm

Hello

I`m looking for information on Windows 7 end of life Support for Cubase 10. Will Windows 7 be support for the future update and if so do we have a date at witch point they will stop supporting it.

Thanks
Last edited by -steve- on Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: merged with topic. Please search
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Suprawill1 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm

MrSoundman wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm


Slightly more involved is dual- or multi-booting, where you can have multiple OSes on different partitions of the same disk, but it works wonderfully once set up properly. I have one laptop with Windows 10, Windows 7 and a minimal Windows XP for really old stuff and I can pick the OS from a boot menu using BootIt, which also has a utility for creating image backups of individual partitions and even entire disks.
If you load more than one OS on separate partitions on the same disk, couldn't you just use the bios to select which one or do you have to use a utility? Why is it more involved to partition the same disc for this method? Wouldn't you just create the partition for the second OS and install it on that?
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by MrSoundman » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 pm

Suprawill1 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm
If you load more than one OS on separate partitions on the same disk, couldn't you just use the bios to select which one or do you have to use a utility?
You can't select which partition to boot from using just the BIOS; you could use fdisk (come with Windows) to change the active partition, but it's easier and less error-prone to use a boot utility.
Suprawill1 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm
Why is it more involved to partition the same disc for this method? Wouldn't you just create the partition for the second OS and install it on that?
You really need to know what you're doing, and understand how partitioning works, because if you make a mistake you could lose everything on the disk. Boot utilities just take all that risk away but, if you like to live dangerously and are not afraid of the "fat finger" effect, then fdisk and fsutil are your friends ....
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by raino » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:53 pm

MrSoundman wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 pm
Suprawill1 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm
If you load more than one OS on separate partitions on the same disk, couldn't you just use the bios to select which one or do you have to use a utility?
You can't select which partition to boot from using just the BIOS; you could use fdisk (come with Windows) to change the active partition, but it's easier and less error-prone to use a boot utility.
Suprawill1 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm
Why is it more involved to partition the same disc for this method? Wouldn't you just create the partition for the second OS and install it on that?
You really need to know what you're doing, and understand how partitioning works, because if you make a mistake you could lose everything on the disk. Boot utilities just take all that risk away but, if you like to live dangerously and are not afraid of the "fat finger" effect, then fdisk and fsutil are your friends ....
Or why mess with partitions at all. Based on this dual boot comment I decided to give the Win10 upgrade another try. So far (knock on wood) I've not run into any of the issues from my previous upgrade attempt. So I just might be joining the modern world.

But rather than messing with a partition I just cloned my system disk to a new larger SSD, changed the boot order in the BIOS and now the new disk is on Win10. If I want to get Win7 I can in the boot. But I'm not really interested in jumping back and forth between OS, just in being able to boot into a stable OS (which was a big problem last time). Once I'm sure Win10 is OK the old disk can be repurposed for sample libraries.

Was quite surprised at how cheap SSD's are going for now. I noticed a disk that I bought one year ago, exact same disk now costs half of what it did then.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Suprawill1 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:28 am

MrSoundman wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 pm
You can't select which partition to boot from using just the BIOS; you could use fdisk (come with Windows) to change the active partition, but it's easier and less error-prone to use a boot utility.

You really need to know what you're doing, and understand how partitioning works, because if you make a mistake you could lose everything on the disk. Boot utilities just take all that risk away but, if you like to live dangerously and are not afraid of the "fat finger" effect, then fdisk and fsutil are your friends ....
Thanks for the reply.
Which boot utility do you recommend?

I've partitioned most of the drives in all 3 'puters that I built. I guess there may be a difference in adding an OS?
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Suprawill1 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:40 am

raino wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:53 pm


Or why mess with partitions at all. Based on this dual boot comment I decided to give the Win10 upgrade another try. So far (knock on wood) I've not run into any of the issues from my previous upgrade attempt. So I just might be joining the modern world.
Hi Rodger,
I've never had a problem running W10 as that is the 1st OS I tried on my most recent 'puter build.
I didn't like the layout but that wasn't the issue.
My problem with 10 is that you no longer have the same update control and you're stuck with what MS wants to put on your computer, regardless if it is compatible with all your soft and hardware or not. That's why I want the insurance of a dual boot. W7 works great with what I have. Granted 10 may work more efficiently in some aspects but I just don't like MS being in total control of my build. There have been some incompatible updates in the past but with W7, I was able to uninstall them.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by MrSoundman » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:33 pm

Suprawill1 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:28 am
Which boot utility do you recommend?
I can pick the OS from a boot menu using BootIt, which also has a utility for creating image backups of individual partitions and even entire disks.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by compositor » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:06 am

Rhino wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:44 pm
- performance isn't even close, and a million little regressions for everyday tasks, file management etc..
It isn't just about performance parse, it is also about installer code, drivers and other features that rely on newer frameworks as well as the application being able to support components and plugins.
Suprawill1 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:40 am
My problem with 10 is that you no longer have the same update control and you're stuck with what MS wants to put on your computer, regardless if it is compatible with all your soft and hardware or not.
This is the point though that SB is making, go with the flow or get out.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by rumbero » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:45 am

Steinberg, I will stay with Win 7. I won't let MS blackmail me to upgrade to Win 10. There is simply no reason to upgrade to Win 10 instead of MS blackmailing users to do so, which is simply inacceptable. If you won't support Win 7 anymore, you are blackmailing me to upgrade to Win 10, just as MS does. This way you are forcing your users to change to another DAW.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Suprawill1 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:33 am

MrSoundman wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:33 pm
Suprawill1 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:28 am
Which boot utility do you recommend?
I can pick the OS from a boot menu using BootIt, which also has a utility for creating image backups of individual partitions and even entire disks.
Thanks MrSoundman!
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Suprawill1 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:50 am

compositor wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:06 am

Suprawill1 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:40 am
My problem with 10 is that you no longer have the same update control and you're stuck with what MS wants to put on your computer, regardless if it is compatible with all your soft and hardware or not.
This is the point though that SB is making, go with the flow or get out.
I can understand having to update an OS to accommodate the program but I'm not willing to lose other programs that are important to me in the same process because of incompatible updates that don't work with everyone. I'm not just talking CB but other programs as well.
I could see if we're talking about W7 but we're talking about W10, the "cutting edge OS" from MS that you would think would support current technology. If you have to suck up any updates MS throws at you regardless of the consequences, then that's not "support".
When I had to uninstall windows updates to avoid conflicts, it was with then, up to date programs including current versions of Cubase. If in W10 I am not allowed to do this then I refuse to so call "go with the flow". That isn't flowing.
Besides, I'm working on a dual boot scenario that will not only keep me up to date but give me an option to fall back on. So if a W10 condition is non operational to the so called flow, I don't have to have anyone pointing the finger at me telling me to get out.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by necromorbus » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:17 pm

raino wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:53 pm
MrSoundman wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 pm
Suprawill1 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm
If you load more than one OS on separate partitions on the same disk, couldn't you just use the bios to select which one or do you have to use a utility?
You can't select which partition to boot from using just the BIOS; you could use fdisk (come with Windows) to change the active partition, but it's easier and less error-prone to use a boot utility.
Suprawill1 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:21 pm
Why is it more involved to partition the same disc for this method? Wouldn't you just create the partition for the second OS and install it on that?
You really need to know what you're doing, and understand how partitioning works, because if you make a mistake you could lose everything on the disk. Boot utilities just take all that risk away but, if you like to live dangerously and are not afraid of the "fat finger" effect, then fdisk and fsutil are your friends ....
Or why mess with partitions at all. Based on this dual boot comment I decided to give the Win10 upgrade another try. So far (knock on wood) I've not run into any of the issues from my previous upgrade attempt. So I just might be joining the modern world.

But rather than messing with a partition I just cloned my system disk to a new larger SSD, changed the boot order in the BIOS and now the new disk is on Win10. If I want to get Win7 I can in the boot. But I'm not really interested in jumping back and forth between OS, just in being able to boot into a stable OS (which was a big problem last time). Once I'm sure Win10 is OK the old disk can be repurposed for sample libraries.

Was quite surprised at how cheap SSD's are going for now. I noticed a disk that I bought one year ago, exact same disk now costs half of what it did then.
So you ran an actual upgrade, not a fresh install? I have a Win7 machine that I need to get up to Win10 at some point, just would prefer a fresh install BUT would certainly not prefer to reinstall a billion plugins and other software... Trying to figure out which path to take.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by jaslan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:34 pm

rumbero wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:45 am
Steinberg, I will stay with Win 7. I won't let MS blackmail me to upgrade to Win 10. There is simply no reason to upgrade to Win 10 instead of MS blackmailing users to do so, which is simply inacceptable. If you won't support Win 7 anymore, you are blackmailing me to upgrade to Win 10, just as MS does. This way you are forcing your users to change to another DAW.
Actually, there is no blackmail going on here. You should look up the definition so you'll understand what it means.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Rhino » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:35 pm

compositor wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:06 am
Rhino wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:44 pm
- performance isn't even close, and a million little regressions for everyday tasks, file management etc..
It isn't just about performance parse, it is also about installer code, drivers and other features that rely on newer frameworks as well as the application being able to support components and plugins.
in a DAW it's all about performance, stability and therefore preventing 3rd parties (e.g. MS) from messing with your system. :idea:

installers are a total non-issue, as thousands of other programs demonstrate clearly.
the current Steinberg installers are way too overcomplicated anyway, the good old "download complete installer manually and run" method was infinitely better.
who needs "assisted downloading" for dummies anyway ?
hell, recording a little 3 chord kiddie tune in Cubase takes so much more technical abilities than downloading a simple installer ...
let's face it, we're all tech heads to a certain degree. :geek:

and about drivers - that's nonsense, too.
- how many drivers does Cubase actually come with ? that generic Low Performance ASIO Driver ?
gimme a break !
besides, I bet this one's identical between W7 & W10 anyway.
- and about ASIO & MIDI driver support in general, 3 letters - RME ! 8-)
my Digiface is > 15 years old now, upgraded to PCIe 10 years ago, still state of the art and fully supported.
In Windows XP SP2 / 7 / 8 / 10, 32/64 Bit.
complete with every new cutting edge feature of the current generation (that does not require extra onboard chips, like the FX).
so clearly, it can be done.
in case of RME it could even be done without a single major bug over all these 15 years ! :D
that's what I call a professional product.

I do not see any technical reason to drop W7 for Cubase, and so far Steinberg have not named one either, only some cloudy generalizations.
until then, it merely seems to be about cost cutting.
which is not enough to convince me.

ymmv
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by -steve- » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:05 pm

They're not going to talk in public about new features in a future release, so you'll be just have to wait for the release to be convinced. ;)
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Rhino » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:30 pm

-steve- wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:05 pm
They're not going to talk in public about new features in a future release, so you'll be just have to wait for the release to be convinced. ;)
we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
something along the lines of Cubase Power Scheme, effectively blocking W10's connection to MS servers, and all the related bloat, could win me over indeed. :lol:
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by raino » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:41 pm

necromorbus wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:17 pm
So you ran an actual upgrade, not a fresh install? I have a Win7 machine that I need to get up to Win10 at some point, just would prefer a fresh install BUT would certainly not prefer to reinstall a billion plugins and other software... Trying to figure out which path to take.
Yeah didn't really need to set anything else up, things just worked for the most part. Looks like it installed several Win10 updates to newer versions as part of the process.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by onto-genesis » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:56 am

This sounds like the right decision, even though it's a difficult one. I would recommend that you pick e.g. 10.5 as the starting point and leave 10.0 "as is".
I would much rather see Steinberg focused on a smaller set of supported operating systems than spending resources supporting the huge and complex legacy environment. This seems a far better use of their limited resources. From my experience, Windows 10 Pro is the most stable Windows I've had. by onto-genesis

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by titchyblackcat » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:20 pm

So, Is Win 10 better (performance wise) for running Cubase ?
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by skijumptoes » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:40 pm

titchyblackcat wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:20 pm
So, Is Win 10 better (performance wise) for running Cubase ?
The newer your machine (CPU/SSD/GPU etc) the more performance you'll yield in my experience. It's very stable vs Win 7 for me, in fact Win 10 is up there with running a Mac now - which is something i never thought i'd say a few years back.

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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by peakae » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:14 am

Windows is generally a pretty slim OS, Cubase should perform about the same in Win10 and Win7.
The feel of the OS is another matter, Win10 in general feels snappy, and I personally find Win10 more stable compared to Win7.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by titchyblackcat » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:53 am

Trying Win 10 now.
I've disabled updates and ran Destroy Windows 10 Spyware.
Seems to work OK on my old machine but i've not commited to the DAW.
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by titchyblackcat » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:19 am

Stopped Microsoft edge from running.
Seems to be quicker than Win 7 or it could be the "Novelty New Effect"
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Re: Compatibility with previous Windows versions no longer maintained

Post by Tj99 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:46 am

As an IT-guy I can just welcome this decision.
Running an old outdated OS is risky anyway. And if you don't change OS now it will be even harder the longer you wait (most probably you will only change when there is something not working for you anymore). Much better to do the change now, you can plan it without stress, you have to do it nevertheless.
Plus WIN10 has a way better performance than WIN7 anyway. Did not want to change OS as well when WIN10 came out. I always waited 2-3 years after each release and did the change then, this way you are sure you wont have any bigger bugs at the beginning.

This way Steinberg can focus on the really important things, like fixing bugs and new features, instead of checking everything on the last 3 outdated OS. Most people don't have any clue at all how time consuming that is.
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