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Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:40 pm
by Chizzler
Yes, but VariAudio is a bit rubbish though. You couldn't seriously compare it to Melodyne or Revoice Pro. But yes, I agree it's what works for you and Cubase finally no longer works for me. It might do in the future and the other DAW's might prove to be 'more worse' than Cubase, but I'm not finding that so far, since I stepped out of The Cave. I can't be doing with shelving out cash to a developer that doesn't deliver on their marketing claptrap, they've always had a bit of leeway but over the past few years, they've just crashed as far as I'm concerned.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:59 pm
by skijumptoes
For vocals, i find Variaudio (3) pretty good, and i like it's ease of use - in most cases, since version 3 it gives me a more natural sounding result vs Melodyne - but that's very subjective and dependant on type/quality of vocal.
Plus if you spend time to construct the project with chord track entries it ties really nicely in to the colour grading and general integration on a whole (Vocal align, and Harmony Generators).
I only have Melodyne Assistant (Upgraded from the free version of essentials you get with Studio One Pro license) to compare it to though, the other versions start to cost the same as Cubase Pro on it's own.. so it's a consideration for those on a budget looking at Studio One vs Cubase.

However, the fact remains that Cubase has it's own engine developed in the same period that Studio One was developing ARA, they took a different path.. but soon (2022? lol) you will have the full advantage of both. Never tried revoice.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:27 pm
by Chizzler
Melodyne Studio was up earlier this year for about £250 using their sales and upgrades etc. You'd never pay full price for it, there's always deals to be done! Variaudio 3 doesn't compare with Melodyne Studio or Editor version. It has polyphonic editing for a start. If I recall correctly, I thought ZPlane developed what has been repackaged as VarAudio, not Steinberg? I may be wrong. You might say they backed the wrong horse.. I couldn't say....

Anyway, I'll keep an eye on Steinberg's Cubase, maybe I'll come back or maybe like some on here, I'll never leave...... :shock:

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:51 pm
by Funkybot
I can't imagine how much work went into making polyphonic audio work as well as it did in Cubase, but the middle-tier of Melodyne is worth it's weight in gold (ok, maybe my weight). I recently used it to fix two bum notes in an otherwise perfect guitar part, and I couldn't hear the edit, and it was much easier than punching in or splicing. I don't want Steinberg going nuts trying to create polyphonic Variaudio in Cubase and shifting a ton of resources to that while everything else suffers when Melodyne already does it so well. For the folks who want Polyphonic Audio Editing in Cubase I say, "you already have it, it's called Melodyne, wait for a sale and buy it - it's absolutely worth it."

Definitely would like to see the ARA2 issues continued to get ironed out though. Particularly the fades/audio edits not being audible. Ran into that while doing a vocal the other day.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:29 pm
by skijumptoes
I would love to be able to play a guitar part in and it returns a detection of the chords as the basis for chord track though. I generally don't use Variaudio/Melodyne as correction - i use them for drafting ideas and creating a 'perfect' template for what we should be aiming for.

...I then 'try' to record live takes based on that signal being put through headphones. But, then i don't like a 'perfect' sound.. I like humane mistakes to be a part of the music.

That's why i would like to see it added into Cubase. But as Chizzler touched on above, it's probably another company who develop the detection algorithms and Steinberg will just pay a license and interpret those functions into use in the software. Studio One is very good at doing that already.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:49 pm
by Maincat
skijumptoes wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:29 pm

...I then 'try' to record live takes based on that signal being put through headphones. But, then i don't like a 'perfect' sound.. I like humane mistakes to be a part of the music.
IMO, that's so refreshing to read. One could argue that 'mistakes' in a musical performance give it an essence of musical perfection. I'd love to hear a Pavarotti recording put through VariAudio and/or Melodyne. I dare say that 'mistakes' would be found. I suspect that the 'perfect' audio from that processing would take away something from the performance, not add to it.

It's a balance, a judgement call, about how much correction to a performance is required. Opinions differ. FWIW, my view is that less is more when it comes to performance audio correction.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:12 pm
by skijumptoes
Maincat wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:49 pm
IMO, that's so refreshing to read. One could argue that 'mistakes' in a musical performance give it an essence of musical perfection.
Totally.. so many people chop and edit their performances to clinical perfection... then they think that some analogue processing on top will provide it some character.

But what so many people miss is that all the great records came complete with humane elements intact, listen to the guitar solo during the outro of Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing... That would be butchered and sanitised to hell with comping and quantize methods today.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 pm
by beatpete
Chizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:27 pm
Variaudio 3 doesn't compare with Melodyne Studio or Editor version.
What a ridiculous statement. I've had Melodyne since it's inception and even after ARA I still prefer Variaudio for vocal pitch correction. Sure, I use Melodyne for timing, polyphonic pitch correction etc. but Variaudio's integration (and sound) are great for me.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:43 pm
by ulesto
Chizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:40 pm
Yes, but VariAudio is a bit rubbish though.
Disagree. I find it easier and quicker to get good results on vocals than melodyne.
skijumptoes wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:12 pm
Maincat wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:49 pm
IMO, that's so refreshing to read. One could argue that 'mistakes' in a musical performance give it an essence of musical perfection.
Totally.. so many people chop and edit their performances to clinical perfection... then they think that some analogue processing on top will provide it some character.

But what so many people miss is that all the great records came complete with humane elements intact, listen to the guitar solo during the outro of Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing... That would be butchered and sanitised to hell with comping and quantize methods today.
My wake up was listening to the Stones Waiting On A Friend with 'engineer ears.' Jagger's back up vox are so out of tune and time, and yet the song is perfect for what it is.

I suppose it depends on the genre of music, but I find myself backing variaudio off a lot if I use it at all. It can totally deaden a performance. I cannot stand autotuned vocals if I can hear it.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:36 pm
by Arionas
beatpete wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 pm
Chizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:27 pm
Variaudio 3 doesn't compare with Melodyne Studio or Editor version.
What a ridiculous statement. I've had Melodyne since it's inception and even after ARA I still prefer Variaudio for vocal pitch correction. Sure, I use Melodyne for timing, polyphonic pitch correction etc. but Variaudio's integration (and sound) are great for me.
I agree 100%. I came back to Cubase after a long period of time working on other Daws and tuning hundreds of vocal tracks with Melodyne (ARA or non ARA). I find to like and prefer VARIAUDIO more.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:40 pm
by Arionas
By the way... why 10.0.40 Update thread hasn’t still moved to the Announcements section?

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am
by djgraver
Is 0.40 the last update for 10?

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:58 am
by ckon
Suprised to see the revamped export window but not too sure about the fact you cant have multiple tabs open

>Import to pool, audio after export
>Realtime export

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:40 am
by skijumptoes
djgraver wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am
Is 0.40 the last update for 10?
You'd imagine so, The paid 10.5 update is expected in 2-3 months time.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:09 am
by Starsprinkler
skijumptoes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:40 am
djgraver wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am
Is 0.40 the last update for 10?
You'd imagine so, The paid 10.5 update is expected in 2-3 months time.
No, there will likely be at least one more update. That last update use to be quite a time after the release of the next major version. 9.5.50 was out in February 2019 - that's 3 month after the release of 10.0. And it's possible there may be an update before 10.5 as well. So, at least one, maybe two more updates. This is not the last one anyhow.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:12 am
by skijumptoes
Ah ok, i stand corrected then, apologies.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:36 pm
by Chizzler
beatpete wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 pm
Chizzler wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:27 pm
Variaudio 3 doesn't compare with Melodyne Studio or Editor version.
What a ridiculous statement. I've had Melodyne since it's inception and even after ARA I still prefer Variaudio for vocal pitch correction. Sure, I use Melodyne for timing, polyphonic pitch correction etc. but Variaudio's integration (and sound) are great for me.
Ridiculous statement? That's a bit silly, rude and 100% wrong. VariAudio 3 doesn't and cant't possibly compare with Melodyne Editor or Studio. Aside from the quality and lack of artefacts, there is polyphonic editing. VariAudio 3 doesn't have polyphonic audio editing, so how could it compare? You seriously can't be that witless surely? It's like comparing apples and oranges, that's why I said you couldn't compare, unless of course I've missed something and VariAudio now offers polyphonic editing?

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:21 pm
by peakae
Variaudio sounds better imho, less artifacts compared to Melodyne.
Melodyne can do so much more, none of which I personally use, but others might be dependent on.
Anyhow ARA2 is here, but expecting the integration to be on par with Studio One is not realistic.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:11 pm
by Funkybot
Sounds like we need a pitch correction shoot out. Who wants to post their out of tune singing and do a variaudio vs melodyne pass on that so we can compare results?

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:24 pm
by skijumptoes
I tried last night using a vocal take in Studio One & Melodyne vs Cubase 10 Pro & Variaudio 3 to check i wasn't going mad. But it truly is quite a difference, variaudio far more natural/transparent..

That said, i'm probably not a good example as i rarely use Melodyne and only on own the lower tier version. Dare i say in the right hands it IS better? I would really like to hear someone experienced in both do a shoot out too.

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:43 pm
by jamescolah
skijumptoes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:24 pm
I tried last night using a vocal take in Studio One & Melodyne vs Cubase 10 Pro & Variaudio 3 to check i wasn't going mad. But it truly is quite a difference, variaudio far more natural/transparent..

That said, i'm probably not a good example as i rarely use Melodyne and only on own the lower tier version. Dare i say in the right hands it IS better? I would really like to hear someone experienced in both do a shoot out too.

I used to be a Melodyne Beta tester and have spent a lot of time comparing the Melodyne Studio 4 algorithm against Variaudio 3 and my conclusion is this. Using monophonic files (single instruments/voices, etc) Melodyne does a far better job at timestretching but Variaudio is much better at pitchshifting!

Please test it for yourself and am sure you'll agree?

Kind regards

James Colah

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:57 pm
by balinas
jamescolah wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:43 pm
skijumptoes wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:24 pm
I tried last night using a vocal take in Studio One & Melodyne vs Cubase 10 Pro & Variaudio 3 to check i wasn't going mad. But it truly is quite a difference, variaudio far more natural/transparent..

That said, i'm probably not a good example as i rarely use Melodyne and only on own the lower tier version. Dare i say in the right hands it IS better? I would really like to hear someone experienced in both do a shoot out too.
I used to be a Melodyne Beta tester and have spent a lot of time comparing the Melodyne Studio 4 algorithm against Variaudio 3 and my conclusion is this. Using monophonic files (single instruments/voices, etc) Melodyne does a far better job at timestretching but Variaudio is much better at pitchshifting!

Please test it for yourself and am sure you'll agree?
Kind regards
James Colah
Thanks for this. I have always hesitated to learning Variaudio in Cubase as most of my tracks are polyphonic, but this gives me some encouragement to look at Variaudio for my monophonic vocals. Thanks!👍👍

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:11 am
by Rhino
jamescolah wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:43 pm
I used to be a Melodyne Beta tester and have spent a lot of time comparing the Melodyne Studio 4 algorithm against Variaudio 3 and my conclusion is this. Using monophonic files (single instruments/voices, etc) Melodyne does a far better job at timestretching but Variaudio is much better at pitchshifting!

Please test it for yourself and am sure you'll agree?

Kind regards

James Colah
thanks, good and informative post :!:
ime, with any processing beyond basic normalization (etc) it never hurts to have alternatives.
the results will vary depending on many, mostly musical factors.
and let's not forget Melodyne's unique capabilities in a proper environment, unfortunately Cubase can't use most of these yet, as of 10.0.40. :(

Rhino

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:06 am
by skijumptoes
jamescolah wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:43 pm
I used to be a Melodyne Beta tester and have spent a lot of time comparing the Melodyne Studio 4 algorithm against Variaudio 3 and my conclusion is this. Using monophonic files (single instruments/voices, etc) Melodyne does a far better job at timestretching but Variaudio is much better at pitchshifting!
That's interesting, i don't do any kind of audio time stretching or quantizing so that's why Variaudio stands out more for me.

Any idea why/how Variaudio has become better at pitch shifting when Celemony are considered the 'go to' in that market? I just presumed that Celemony would be ahead of the pack, like many i expect?

Re: 10.0.40 Update

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:25 pm
by OnBeat
Has anyone noticed that melodyne now opens supper slow when activating ARA or opening the plugging? It happens on both Nuendo 10 and Cubase 10 since last update. I am also using the latest version of Melodyne. Also, after using melodyne ARA Nuendo crashes when closing the project. I suspect that this update was not ready for prime time and that's why it's not in the announcement section of the forum.