Logic user

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kvass
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Logic user

Post by kvass » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:42 pm

Hi I’m long time logic user, thinking of getting cubase to use on windows.
How does cubase 10 compare to logic and what are the pluses and minuses of cubase 10 ?

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Re: Logic user

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:59 am

Hi and welcome,

I would recommend to download Cubase Trial version and test it by yourself. Everyone see other benefits.

Btw, one of the plus already here, you can download Trial version. ;-)
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kvass
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Re: Logic user

Post by kvass » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:40 am

Do I need to purchase USB key just to try the trial ?

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Re: Logic user

Post by shanabit » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:00 pm

8-)
Last edited by shanabit on Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Non-participating in perpetuity. Enjoy your forum

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Re: Logic user

Post by skijumptoes » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:20 pm

Just jumped myself recently, and swapped MacOS for Windows on my main audio machine and suprisingly loving it.

Pros and cons really depend on the individual, i.e. are you a songwriter, mixer, video editor etc. I use a DAW for songwriting, and less for mixing, so my immediate benefits is loving the chord track for composing and being able to set MIDI ports on a per-track basis which works so much better than Logic for my external MIDI gear. It feels much more free-flowing in that i can hit record at anytime and capture a recording during any point when playing a track - Logic you have to be more deliberate in recording as it likes to prime a live track into it's own CPU thread.

Negatives probably CPU usage is better in Logic, but as i moved to a windows based machine this is a non-issue as i can get so much more raw CPU power for my money (Not to mention the freedom to put whatever storage/RAM i want).

Also Cubase interface is a "love it" or "hate it" thing i guess - I'm still undecided on whether i like it or not, it's not like i struggle with it - just aesthetically it seems a bit cumbersome at times.... But i find that with a lot of windows apps too. lol

Bottom line is that Cubase is producing better results for me, and that's all i can judge it on, plus i'm no longer forced to stay in the Mac ecosystem.

Sadly, you've missed the great competitive crossgrade offer they had on - that was a great time to jump onboard.

The one thing i miss from Logic is it's simplicity.

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Re: Logic user

Post by currentsound » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:34 am

I've worked in lots of studios where I've had to use Logic Pro X. Overall in Cubase, you can do more and it's faster to use once you learn all the features. Logic is quite outdated in terms of the recording and editing side. The best thing about Logic is the price and all the plugins that are included as it's good value. However, I never use any of the stock plugins in logic as there are better 3rd party instruments and effects but if you don't have those or the money to buy them, sure, logic is very good value. The value starts to disappear though if you were to by a mac just to use logic though as for that price you could had just put Cubase on your PC and bought a bunch of the most popular virtual instruments and effects and then had all the extra feature of Cubase.

I think Logic is a little prettier but in Cubase except for the last couple of years when they have made Logic look all flat. In Cubase, I edit the customization options to make everything black, dark and black n white (no colors). If you like the visual aspect of logic, you might wanna edit the Cubase colors to make it look more similar. You can also assign your own shortcuts in Cubase so if you are used to doing certain shortcuts in Logic that don't exist in Cubase, you can probably assign them to do the same thing in Cubase if you didn't wanna relearn them or if you're jumping back and forth between Logic and Cubase all the time.

Once you start using Cubase or your PC, you'll probably get annoyed at why it takes so long to do certain tasks in Logic that are much faster in Cubase and you'll probably want to install Cubase on your mac.

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Re: Logic user

Post by skijumptoes » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:45 am

currentsound wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:34 am
In Cubase, I edit the customization options to make everything black, dark and black n white (no colors). If you like the visual aspect of logic, you might wanna edit the Cubase colors to make it look more similar.
Really interested in what you say here, any chance of sharing a screenshot please?

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Re: Logic user

Post by currentsound » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:23 pm

Ok, I'll get you one when I'm back in the studio.

Outside of Cubase you can even get 3rd party windows themes to make all of windows look like MacOs if you like. You can find some on Deviant art for windows 10 by Niivu but they require modding windows system files so it's not for the faint of heart. They will often change the plugin windows in Cubase though. So when you see my screenshot which I get to you, 80% of that is done within Cubase but the other 20% was done by modding the whole OS to look like a dark version of MacOS which ends up turning all the cubase menus and plugin window frames black and rounded like in Logic.

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Re: Logic user

Post by skijumptoes » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:44 pm

Thank you, that's really appreciated as it's the one stumbling block i have with Cubase (and Windows to some degree).

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CUBASE 10 DARK MODE THEME by Current Sound

Post by currentsound » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:42 am

skijumptoes wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:45 am
currentsound wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:34 am
In Cubase, I edit the customization options to make everything black, dark and black n white (no colors). If you like the visual aspect of logic, you might wanna edit the Cubase colors to make it look more similar.
Really interested in what you say here, any chance of sharing a screenshot please?
Here is a screenshot.

You can just download my personalization settings file for Cubase if you like and it will make Cubase 10 Dark like logic Pro X.

I also use a 3rd party Windows 10 theme to make all the plugin frames and menus within Cubase black and curved like in logic.

I thought other people might like to do this also so I explain how to do it here and provide my settings file. I'm calling the Cubase 10 Dark Mode Theme lol https://currentsound.com/general/cubase ... ode-theme/
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Re: Logic user

Post by currentsound » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:08 am

Here is another screenshot showing the black plugin window frame
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Re: Logic user

Post by currentsound » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:39 am

For Cubase 9, the difference is more drastic. There is a link to both 9 and earlier and 10 customization settings here: https://currentsound.com/general/cubase ... ode-theme/
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Re: Logic user

Post by skijumptoes » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:33 am

Wow! Thanks for putting this up, i'll have a try later. And interesting that you mention Synesthesia, as that's me also! lol :)

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Re: Logic user

Post by currentsound » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:14 am

skijumptoes wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:33 am
Wow! Thanks for putting this up, i'll have a try later. And interesting that you mention Synesthesia, as that's me also! lol :)
No problem.

Although the percentage of people that have Synesthesia is low, I've personally met lots of musicians and music producers that have it. This makes me think that a lot of those that have it are also often interested in music. It doesn't seem too uncommon among musicians, producers and those in the recording industry (who are also usually musicians) from what I've noticed.

For people like us, seeing different colors on the screen to what we are visualizing with the music can be very distracting.

What annoys me in Cubase 10 after the customization, unlike in earlier versions, is that I can no longer make the inserts dark grey. It forces them to be this blue color. For some reason, the customization options don't seem to allow them to be changed. If it can, I couldn't seem to find it so I think it's not an option anymore. Hopefully they will allow us to change the color of the inserts again. If I missed it, and you work it out, let me know? Thanks. At least we can customize the look more than in most other DAWs.

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Re: Logic user

Post by skijumptoes » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:35 pm

I've not had a chance to try it yet as we've had storms and power cuts past few days and i dare not turn my studio room on lol.

But yes it is interesting with different traits being associated with creative types. Nearly every musician i've met has suffered with some form of (social) anxiety too, it's incredible the amount of people who travel with bands and get up on stage yet crumble mentally when going in a shopping mall, or simple one-to-one scenarios.

Generally, i don't mention Synesthesia to anyone much nowadays as in the past i've been met with reactions such as "Sounds like autism, mate", which makes you feel a bit 'ugh'. But then... i think everyone's on that scale a little bit, at least who i come in contact with. So don't see it as a bad thing.

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Re: Logic user

Post by currentsound » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:36 pm

Well considering that if you're a music producer with Synethesia, if you're lucky enough to have music triggered Synesthesia, it will most likely give you the ability to either;

1) Instantly know every note that is being played in a song without a reference pitch
OR
2) Instantly know all the instruments, sounds, samples and even patches that you recognize in a dense production which helps to give you the ability to remember and recreate the sound design of a particular song and/or genre.

I'd say that is an extra ability not disability. So I wouldn't worry about telling people so much.


Here are some famous musicians who say they have Synethesia according to Wikipedia. The most interesting being Pharrell Williams who said he used it for the basis for the production of the album Seeing Sounds. But I would argue that he uses it for the basis of all of his production given that his production often has a certain style even though the instrumentation changes as he often uses similar sounding samples and similarly pitched samples even though they are all different. So it could be argued that he uses it to help create his own production style and sound. This is the list from Wikipedia but I'm sure they are way more people that don't want to talk about it.

Billy Joel,Itzhak Perlman, Alexander Frey, Lorde, Ida Maria, Brian Chase and Patrick Stump; actress Stephanie Carswell (credited as Stéphanie Montreux); electronic musician Richard D. James aka Aphex Twin; and classical pianist Hélène Grimaud. Drummer Mickey Hart of The Grateful Dead. Pharrell Williams, of the groups The Neptunes and N.E.R.D., also experiences synesthesia and used it as the basis of the album Seeing Sounds.

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Re: Logic user

Post by mattymkb » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:09 am

currentsound wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:34 am
I've worked in lots of studios where I've had to use Logic Pro X. Overall in Cubase, you can do more and it's faster to use once you learn all the features. Logic is quite outdated in terms of the recording and editing side. The best thing about Logic is the price and all the plugins that are included as it's good value. However, I never use any of the stock plugins in logic as there are better 3rd party instruments and effects but if you don't have those or the money to buy them, sure, logic is very good value. The value starts to disappear though if you were to by a mac just to use logic though as for that price you could had just put Cubase on your PC and bought a bunch of the most popular virtual instruments and effects and then had all the extra feature of Cubase.

I think Logic is a little prettier but in Cubase except for the last couple of years when they have made Logic look all flat. In Cubase, I edit the customization options to make everything black, dark and black n white (no colors). If you like the visual aspect of logic, you might wanna edit the Cubase colors to make it look more similar. You can also assign your own shortcuts in Cubase so if you are used to doing certain shortcuts in Logic that don't exist in Cubase, you can probably assign them to do the same thing in Cubase if you didn't wanna relearn them or if you're jumping back and forth between Logic and Cubase all the time.

Once you start using Cubase or your PC, you'll probably get annoyed at why it takes so long to do certain tasks in Logic that are much faster in Cubase and you'll probably want to install Cubase on your mac.
1. Claim that Logic is outdated in terms of the recording and editing side is an opinion, not a fact. I am a Pro Tools user who uses Logic as well and in my opinion Logic and Studio One have workflows closest to PT in this regard and are top notch in those aspects. The only reason I am currently interested in Cubase Pro 10 is because feature-wise it seems to be the only Windows based DAW that matches Logic Pro X. I need a good VI support and notation with lyrics.

2. Buying a mac for Logic Pro X might be or might not be a good idea. I would rather pay extra for a laptop rather than for a DAW which requires a dongle and gives me just 1 license. For a desktop computer nothing matches a good PC with all components picked by you. This is my perspective on it.

3. "Once you start using Cubase or your PC, you'll probably get annoyed at why it takes so long to do certain tasks in Logic that are much faster in Cubase and you'll probably want to install Cubase on your mac." Can you give me some examples? I am trying out Elements 10 right now and will probably buy an e-licenser to try the Pro version next month.
Last edited by mattymkb on Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Logic user

Post by mattymkb » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:16 pm

I alsohave some other questions for Cubase experts here.

1. How is currently performance on Mac? Is it good?

2. How is Steinberg elicenser? That's probably the biggest worry that I have. Even Pro Tools allowed me to ditch the dongle and use iLok Cloud.

3. I am trying the Elements right now. I understand it's completely handicapped. Is it possible to have a DOCKED mixer with faders AND sends visible at the same time?

4. Is it possible to have more than one tab unfolded in the Inspector? Lets say I want to have the fader always visible but also the inserts? Is it possible in Pro to show/hide more than one tab or is it just one tab at a time?

5. Is it possible to transpose midi region without moving the notes inside? So basically I have C D and E notes and transpose them to C#, D#, F but I still see them as C, D, E and when I click/rehearse/draw them I will hear them as transposed, NOT as shown.

6. Logic has z fantastic delay function where a region can be delayed by ticks or ms without affecting it's position on the grid AND notes inside. I see the Offset function but it moves the notes inside. Is it possible to shift different regions by different value AND still have the notes inside as well as the regions themselves intact, perfectly on the grid?

7. Anybody transitioned from Logic Pro X to Cubase and didn't look back? I love the features, it's completely packed with good stuff just available to use but fear the dongle, performance with bigger sessions and stability.

8. Any advice? I know Logic Pro X in and out and Pro Tools.

BIG Thanks!

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Re: Logic user

Post by skijumptoes » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:41 am

mattymkb wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:16 pm
1. How is currently performance on Mac? Is it good?
I've only tried direct comparison on a 2012 (Xeon CPU) Mac Pro but i'd say that Cubase is around 70-80% efficient vs Logic's performance in real world use. So, if you're currently quite loaded up with your projects in Logic you 'may' get problems, but it really depends on which plugins you're using, your interface ASIO drivers, Settings etc., i presume the difference is a VST/AU thing, perhaps, as some projects that i've migrated seem to run better in Cubase.
2. How is Steinberg elicenser? That's probably the biggest worry that I have. Even Pro Tools allowed me to ditch the dongle and use iLok Cloud.
It's been brilliant for me, i had big doubts about it. As a Logic user the app store method works so easy for any machine under your control, however, i've been able to take my license of Cubase into a friends studio and work on/record into my projects via his windows setup (Usually Studio One). In regards to just plugging it in, and it working, i've put it across 4 machines and been flawless - Just wish you could put the Mac/Win install files on the stick too as you have the complete setup on one stick then without any need for an internet connection! :)
3. I am trying the Elements right now. I understand it's completely handicapped. Is it possible to have a DOCKED mixer with faders AND sends visible at the same time?
Nope, that's only available in the full mixer view. And moving from Elements 9.5 to Pro 10 myself, Elements isn't really all that bad and the basics are quite the same really.
4. Is it possible to have more than one tab unfolded in the Inspector? Lets say I want to have the fader always visible but also the inserts? Is it possible in Pro to show/hide more than one tab or is it just one tab at a time?
Yeah you just hold down ctrl key and click to expand a tab, and it stays open even when you move between tracks too. But when you expand a tab without holding the ctrl key then it will close all previous tabs open.
5. Is it possible to transpose midi region without moving the notes inside? So basically I have C D and E notes and transpose them to C#, D#, F but I still see them as C, D, E and when I click/rehearse/draw them I will hear them as transposed, NOT as shown.
Yes, MIDI Modifiers tab lest you set Transpose and Velocity Shifts (As the inspector in Logic does) for that track globally, in addition to that you also have selected clip related Transpose/Velocity shifts at the top of the screen, or in the piano roll view. Changing either of these does not affect the MIDI region data.

Also, (different to Logic?) is that both (Global and clip) values are applied as a total sum - i.e. if you had a track setting of +12 Transpose and a clip setting of -12, it would play as per the original clip/region data.

And yes, when you move the MIDI notes in piano roll you hear them with the transpose shift applied, but see/edit them as originally played.
6. Logic has z fantastic delay function where a region can be delayed by ticks or ms without affecting it's position on the grid AND notes inside. I see the Offset function but it moves the notes inside. Is it possible to shift different regions by different value AND still have the notes inside as well as the regions themselves intact, perfectly on the grid?
I've only seen the offset function for delaying MIDI on a region/clip basis as you've stated, however you can delay on a track basis, with Cubase Pro you get access to the MIDI Inserts, one of those is a MIDI Modifier plugin which has a delay parameter. That's limited to +/- 50ms, however.
7. Anybody transitioned from Logic Pro X to Cubase and didn't look back? I love the features, it's completely packed with good stuff just available to use but fear the dongle, performance with bigger sessions and stability.
I think really it depends on what you do, and how much you're willing to embrace the features. For me i've not looked back, as a song composition tool i love elements like the chord track - i have many ideas that i may not sit and rehearse so using the chord track to document my songs on the fly, and then use it to experiment with different vocal phrases/tunings via variausio it's been sooo good, way beyond Logic.

It also deals with multiple external MIDI instruments much better than Logic, being able to set MIDI inputs per track is a game changer, with Logic you have to set MIDI channels for each hardware and ensure Demix by channel is selected, record enable all tracks etc. With Cubase i could have an external drum machine running and it won't bleed into other MIDI tracks that i select, for example.

I've not had a chance to sit down and do any serious/deep mixing with it yet, so can't really comment vs Logic there.

One thing i will say though, Cubase does sound great - i don't know what it does differently as of course digital audio when summed should be equal across all DAWs, but when you start pushing the faders and applying plugins it seems to be more forgiving than any other DAW i've used. Right now i'm composing ideas, giving them a rough mix and then exporting out to listen on different devices. Since May I've finished 5 songs, and 2 of them i'm super pleased with - In Logic i hadn't completed a song in about 6 months.

There's something in Cubase that's making me work far more deliberately, It may be emperors new clothes of course, but so far, very pleased. :)

I also really like the channel linking in the mixer, so you can fix groups of channels to share fader, panning, sends, inserts.. lots of things, so if you move one, the rest go with it. You can also use q-link which will apply changes to all the tracks currently selected, rather than using fixed groups. Great when you're wanting to add a few sends to selected tracks.
8. Any advice? I know Logic Pro X in and out and Pro Tools.
I think CPU usage should be your biggest concern, the Dongle is just a non-issue. But then Elements should be giving you a good idea on how it runs with your setup now?

Also of interest may be the control room function? At it's basic function It can act as a fader globally so you can set reference levels and add plugins which exist on top of all projects, i have a limiter to protect my speakers and a slight EQ that i used to calibrate my monitors and i love it (i add a little bit of bass to stop me overdoing it on the mix itself) - i don't have to reach for my hardware mixer to turn down the volume anymore, or use the master out channel on the projects mixer for EQ correction. Also, i can use a limiter and still see the projects master out untouched.

My biggest concern with Cubase is the update cycle and how much more expensive it is vs Logic, but unless there's a feature i really want in each update i'll wait it out and buy when on sale.

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Re: Logic user

Post by mattymkb » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:49 pm

Thank you very much! That's a lot of information! I am planning to get an elicenser in a few days and try the Pro version and experiment with it a little.

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Re: Logic user

Post by currentsound » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:18 pm

mattymkb wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:09 am
currentsound wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:34 am
I've worked in lots of studios where I've had to use Logic Pro X. Overall in Cubase, you can do more and it's faster to use once you learn all the features. Logic is quite outdated in terms of the recording and editing side. The best thing about Logic is the price and all the plugins that are included as it's good value. However, I never use any of the stock plugins in logic as there are better 3rd party instruments and effects but if you don't have those or the money to buy them, sure, logic is very good value. The value starts to disappear though if you were to by a mac just to use logic though as for that price you could had just put Cubase on your PC and bought a bunch of the most popular virtual instruments and effects and then had all the extra feature of Cubase.

I think Logic is a little prettier but in Cubase except for the last couple of years when they have made Logic look all flat. In Cubase, I edit the customization options to make everything black, dark and black n white (no colors). If you like the visual aspect of logic, you might wanna edit the Cubase colors to make it look more similar. You can also assign your own shortcuts in Cubase so if you are used to doing certain shortcuts in Logic that don't exist in Cubase, you can probably assign them to do the same thing in Cubase if you didn't wanna relearn them or if you're jumping back and forth between Logic and Cubase all the time.

Once you start using Cubase or your PC, you'll probably get annoyed at why it takes so long to do certain tasks in Logic that are much faster in Cubase and you'll probably want to install Cubase on your mac.
1. Claim that Logic is outdated in terms of the recording and editing side is an opinion, not a fact. I am a Pro Tools user who uses Logic as well and in my opinion Logic and Studio One have workflows closest to PT in this regard and are top notch in those aspects. The only reason I am currently interested in Cubase Pro 10 is because feature-wise it seems to be the only Windows based DAW that matches Logic Pro X. I need a good VI support and notation with lyrics.
Of course it's an opinion but the reason I think that way is that editing audio in Logic hasn't changed much since the 90s but Cubase has evolved. In logic, you don't have the comp tool that Cubase does which forces you to edit the same way we had to edit in Cubase 10 years ago which is much slower. This is why I say it's outdated. Comping in Pro Tools is also slower than Cubase which is why you might not notice that Logic is slow by comparison. Logic also doesn't have clip based editing with offline processing of plugins. Logic doesn't have hitpoint detection and quantization of multiple channels at once while keep them in phase. For example, quantizing a real drum kit with 10+ microphones in Logic almost impossible unless manually slicing and shifting it. Pro Tools has beat detective but it still isn't that great and Cubase does it in minutes based on hit points and slices them all automatically for you. You really have to use the editing tools in Cubase to see how much faster they are. My clients notice that I'm faster at editing than all the other studios they have been to but they're not using Cubase.

mattymkb wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:09 am
3. "Once you start using Cubase or your PC, you'll probably get annoyed at why it takes so long to do certain tasks in Logic that are much faster in Cubase and you'll probably want to install Cubase on your mac." Can you give me some examples? I am trying out Elements 10 right now and will probably buy an e-licenser to try the Pro version next month.
  • The comp tool is one example.
  • Offline processing of plugins onto clips is another example as in logic you would have to automate plugins on and off if you wanted a clip to have a certain effect such as Auto Tuning just one line or take.
  • In general, a large amount of functions in logic require key commands where in Cubase you can just click on it.
  • In Logic you must browse to every plugin, in Cubase you just type the first couple of letters of the plugin and it will appear.
  • In Logic there is no way to organize presets for synths/virtual instruments except for saving fxb files on your computer and browsing for them manually. In Cubase, you can save your own presets and recall them and search for them within each plugin.
  • Cubase allows individual headphone mixes and talk back within the DAW itself.
  • You can also use hit points to midi create drum triggers, something that is not possible in Logic or Pro Tools.
  • You can also use these hit points to automatically slice and quantize live drums over multiple microphones and channels at once.
  • The same with aligning double tracked vocals, this is now something that can be done automatically in Cubase which has to be done manually in the other two DAWs.
This is what I mean by you will find logic annoying once you start using Cubase. I'm aware that I would be faster in Logic if I were using it every single day and knew every shortcut but even when working with other producers in Logic that use it every day and watching them work I would often think, OMG this is so slow. Then when I make a suggestion as to 'why don't you just...' the answer will always be "you can't do that in Logic". So there are many more things not on my list but if you just grab the demo as other people have pointed out you can discover some workflow enhancements of your own.

I don't work for Steinberg so I don't really care if you use Cubase or not. Not sure a form post is the way to go about showing people why I like Cubase. Some things are better just shown in person. I might make a comparison video one day but the best thing you can do is just grab a demo of it and see if you like it. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what other people think, you need to like it.

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