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Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:36 am
by vmudrak
Dear Dorico/Cubase team,
I would appreciate if you take this in consideration: An integration of Dorico with Cubase.
Reasonable advantages of such integration:
1. It would increase sales of Dorico for Cubase users and Cubase sales for Dorico users...
2. It would match and surpass DAW competitors (such as Logic X) that has a much better looking integrated score editors compare to that of Cubase.
3. It would create an ultimate (and desirable) workshop for composers who (want to) use scoring, audio recording and midi sequencing (with external gear) under one umbrella.
4. Steinberg would stand out instead of providing a mere alternative to current systems.

I hope this idea would spark an interest especially as it would generate a whole lot more buzz for Steinberg. I am willing to help out if any interest. I'm using OSX.

Sincerely,
Vlado Mudrak

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:27 pm
by shanabit
1. Agree
2. Agree 100%. Logic looks way better and is way easier to manipulate IMO.
3. Agree
4. Agree

*The current Scoring is just beyondo IMO. Ditch it and just put in Dorico Light or something

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:57 pm
by maggie
I can imagine that Dorico can be integrated into Cubase via ARA in the future.

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:29 pm
by roy_mattie
Why not add a lite version of Dorico to replace Cubase's antiquated score editor, with an upgrade path to Dorico? 2-way communication between the 2 apps is the ultimate workflow, especially for conforming edits.

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:06 pm
by Thurisaz
I'm up for this idea, too! :-) It would be really great to have such integration.
Unfortunately so much things should be changed into both apps in order this integration to work as expected, as close as possible
to the way how the real bands and orchestras work.
I did long post about what is important to happen in Cubase in the following post:
viewtopic.php?f=285&t=149903&p=807023#p806176

ARA 2 Like option for MIDI it'll be great in order the editing in Dorico to simultaneously appear in Cubase, and vice versa.
This will speed-up the overall workflow from composition to notation! :-)
If Steinberg teams consider my suggestion... Well, probably this integration could be possible not earlier than version 11.5 of Cubase, and 4 - 4.X of Dorico.
I hope both teams behind Cubase and Dorico will hear us and will make this major step into the right direction! :-)
Paper like scoring way must be deeply embraced, and multiple libraries into single Staff, or MIDI Track, too. /The need for MIDI Track Per Library patch should be preserved as optional/
For example: Most common practice for writing for String Section is to use 5 staves.
The integration of the Expression Maps in Overture allows you to load unlimited number of library patches (from different companies) per staff - for instance Violins 1 - you can use patches from Orchestral Tools, Spitfire Audion, Cinesamples, Cinematic Studio Strings, LASS, 8 Dio, Soundiron and all they can be used simultaneously, even with some small tricks you can combine different articulations from different libraries to play together.
Also there is a Direct Mapping... you can have full control per single expression map. In case you would like to preserve a particular articulation for real recording or performance, but you don't like how it sounds with virtual instruments on a specific place in the score, so you can turn it off. :-)
Overture doesn't force you to waste time on creating pre-defined Expression Maps, and the to start scoring. You can create it even on fly while working on project and then to save it as User Preset. Both ways exist. Very flexible and comfortable. Isn't it?


Greetings :-)

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:58 pm
by MGil
+1

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:11 pm
by mart
+1. Workflow between writing in DAW and going to Sibelius/Dorico etc is torturous

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:36 pm
by Unfolded
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree

Better workflow, focus on scoring - less on application, time saver, perfect!

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:38 am
by giafin
Thurisaz wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:06 pm
I'm up for this idea, too! :-) It would be really great to have such integration.
Unfortunately so much things should be changed into both apps in order this integration to work as expected, as close as possible
to the way how the real bands and orchestras work.
I did long post about what is important to happen in Cubase in the following post:
viewtopic.php?f=285&t=149903&p=807023#p806176

ARA 2 Like option for MIDI it'll be great in order the editing in Dorico to simultaneously appear in Cubase, and vice versa.
This will speed-up the overall workflow from composition to notation! :-)
If Steinberg teams consider my suggestion... Well, probably this integration could be possible not earlier than version 11.5 of Cubase, and 4 - 4.X of Dorico.
I hope both teams behind Cubase and Dorico will hear us and will make this major step into the right direction! :-)
Paper like scoring way must be deeply embraced, and multiple libraries into single Staff, or MIDI Track, too. /The need for MIDI Track Per Library patch should be preserved as optional/
For example: Most common practice for writing for String Section is to use 5 staves.
The integration of the Expression Maps in Overture allows you to load unlimited number of library patches (from different companies) per staff - for instance Violins 1 - you can use patches from Orchestral Tools, Spitfire Audion, Cinesamples, Cinematic Studio Strings, LASS, 8 Dio, Soundiron and all they can be used simultaneously, even with some small tricks you can combine different articulations from different libraries to play together.
Also there is a Direct Mapping... you can have full control per single expression map. In case you would like to preserve a particular articulation for real recording or performance, but you don't like how it sounds with virtual instruments on a specific place in the score, so you can turn it off. :-)
Overture doesn't force you to waste time on creating pre-defined Expression Maps, and the to start scoring. You can create it even on fly while working on project and then to save it as User Preset. Both ways exist. Very flexible and comfortable. Isn't it?


Greetings :-)
+1 - Agree entirely

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 3:42 am
by giafin
shanabit wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:27 pm
1. Agree
2. Agree 100%. Logic looks way better and is way easier to manipulate IMO.
3. Agree
4. Agree

*The current Scoring is just beyondo IMO. Ditch it and just put in Dorico Light or something
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree

Please, Steinberg, hear us!! Soon!

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 pm
by TheMaestro
Just a humble question:
Does any of you actually use, or has any of you ever used the Score Editor?
I mean, really.

Even though, considering some of your comments, I have an idea of what the answer is.
But please don't take offense.

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:24 pm
by mart
TheMaestro wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 pm
Just a humble question:
Does any of you actually use, or has any of you ever used the Score Editor?
I mean, really.

Even though, considering some of your comments, I have an idea of what the answer is.
But please don't take offense.
Once or twice. But what I’d hope is that Cubase dumps the codebase on score editor and ends up integrating Dorico’s engine to move seamlessly between Midi programming and a more user friendly/powerful score software

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:25 pm
by -steve-
TheMaestro wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 pm
Just a humble question:
Does any of you actually use, or has any of you ever used the Score Editor?
I mean, really.

Even though, considering some of your comments, I have an idea of what the answer is.
But please don't take offense.
How outrageous of you. :P

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 pm
by -steve-
mart wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 9:24 pm
TheMaestro wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 pm
Just a humble question:
Once or twice. But what I’d hope is that Cubase dumps the codebase on score editor and ends up integrating Dorico’s engine to love seamlessly between Midi programming and a more user friendly/powerful score software
The whole point of the Score Editor is that it does seamlessly integrate with the rest of Cubase.

I use the Score editor regularly, and follow its development closely, as do many other users who might not even be on this forum at all. From the viewpoint of someone who has developed expertise in the Score Editor over more years than one might like to count, the statements in this thread and others on the topic seem facile and uninformed.

It does have a steep learning curve, but for those willing, the labor is worth it. (TheMaestro is a master of it- I've seen amazing examples of scores he's produced, and he's very quick) If ever you want to climb, just post a question, score edit users are geekier than your average bear, so you will get an answer.

Here's one now: Open Score Settings and set the note quantization and other options as in the pic below. This resolves the common problem of having a illegible jumble of 128th notes and 1024th rests...

Image

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:35 pm
by -steve-
Okay, there is one thing I would indeed like to see in Cubase from Dorico- fonts! To be able to use SMuFL fonts, mainly for the vast number of symbols and special markings.

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:15 am
by mart
-steve- wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 pm
mart wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 9:24 pm
TheMaestro wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 pm
Just a humble question:
Once or twice. But what I’d hope is that Cubase dumps the codebase on score editor and ends up integrating Dorico’s engine to love seamlessly between Midi programming and a more user friendly/powerful score software
The whole point of the Score Editor is that it does seamlessly integrate with the rest of Cubase.

I use the Score editor regularly, and follow its development closely, as do many other users who might not even be on this forum at all. From the viewpoint of someone who has developed expertise in the Score Editor over more years than one might like to count, the statements in this thread and others on the topic seem facile and uninformed.

It does have a steep learning curve, but for those willing, the labor is worth it. (TheMaestro is a master of it- I've seen amazing examples of scores he's produced, and he's very quick) If ever you want to climb, just post a question, score edit users are geekier than your average bear, so you will get an answer.

Here's one now: Open Score Settings and set the note quantization and other options as in the pic below. This resolves the common problem of having a illegible jumble of 128th notes and 1024th rests...

Image
But using it is lack-lustre in comparison to another Streinberg product (Dorico) and the file it creates does not open in Dorico for further editing and cross-compatibility- I feel its a lost opportunity to integrate the product line.

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:53 pm
by TheMaestro
What I wanted to point out is the fact that the Score Editor's reputation is mostly based on hearsay, and posts such as those in this thread are not helping the situation.

It's hard to believe that someone using seriously the program can state that the Score Editor is light, poor, unprofessional, unintuitive. Intuitiveness of the program highly depends on your mastery of the software and your settings, key commands etc.
It's quite possible to produce beautiiful scores with the Score Editor quickly but it needs patience and learning.

If you are excpecting playing your music with your MIDI device, firing up the Score Editor and get perfect scores in no time, you are dreaming. No scoring software is capable of doing so. Every page of a score requires a lot of work and fine adjustments. You need to learn the Score Editor in depth, strengthen your skills and speed up your workflow to be able to produce good looking scores quickly.


Follow Steve's advice in the first place. The Score Editor has no secrets for him. He is a great example of a professional who speaks from real and vast experience. he also works with Dorico, so he knows both worlds. But as he said we are probably a small sample of the users in these forums.


The main goal of the Score Editor is not necessarily to just edit the MIDI data and prepare the notes for export and rework in another scoring program, but to produce and print professional scores directly from Cubase.

If you have specific needs as an engraver/publisher, in this case Dorico would most probably be the most natural choice.

That said, having Dorico in Cubase would be great of course, but this evolution does not seem to be planned for the moment, and in the meantime the Score Editor keeps on doing a great job not only as a "score editor", but it can very well be used as a standalone scoring program.

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:06 pm
by shanabit
TheMaestro wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 pm
Just a humble question:
Does any of you actually use, or has any of you ever used the Score Editor?
I mean, really.

Even though, considering some of your comments, I have an idea of what the answer is.
But please don't take offense.
No offense taken bro but when I have to go menu diving to simply change the meter or key it is quite laborious. I know that you and others dive deep, most of us do not and simply want to print out that bass track without it being a PITA. I can do this in Logic AND it looks better. No hassle to know the entire workings of the program. I dont want to feel like Im deep in REAPER just to print a melody line.

On that note. There is absolutely ZERO instruction on the Score Editor in terms of video anyplace that I have looked. Hell you have to search for the manual

That said, Id LOVE to use it a lot more here

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:24 pm
by -steve-
Change meter: Double click on the time signature, or select the desired time sig from the Time Signature tab in the Left Zone Symbols inspector, then click in the score where you want the new sig.

Or, add the time sig in the Time Signature track.

Print one simple track such as a bass part: Open part in the Score Editor, set display quantize to 16 for notes, 4 for rests. Activate Page view. Print.

This is inbdf.

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:42 pm
by TheMaestro
shanabit wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 9:06 pm
most of us do not and simply want to print out that bass track without it being a PITA. I can do this in Logic AND it looks better.
There is absolutely ZERO instruction on the Score Editor in terms of video anyplace that I have looked.
If the only thing you need is to get that bass staff right, it will take you only 5 minutes!
It's the duration of this video that shows the basics of the Score Editor, and exactly what steve explained earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqDK2Rhpb3g

Does Logic really do it any better?

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:09 am
by shanabit
TheMaestro wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 10:42 pm
shanabit wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 9:06 pm
most of us do not and simply want to print out that bass track without it being a PITA. I can do this in Logic AND it looks better.
There is absolutely ZERO instruction on the Score Editor in terms of video anyplace that I have looked.
If the only thing you need is to get that bass staff right, it will take you only 5 minutes!
It's the duration of this video that shows the basics of the Score Editor, and exactly what steve explained earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqDK2Rhpb3g

Does Logic really do it any better?
Thanks, yes Logic is simpler to use

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 2:12 am
by Thurisaz
TheMaestro wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:03 pm
Just a humble question:
Does any of you actually use, or has any of you ever used the Score Editor?
I mean, really.

Even though, considering some of your comments, I have an idea of what the answer is.
But please don't take offense.

TheMaestro
hello,
Many of us will prefer to work with the Score Editor, instead of the Key Editor, if it worked as it really should.
Unfortunately the Score Editor and the Expression Maps are nice as idea, but totally useless in practice. :(

The conception and integration of the Score Editor and the Expression Maps must be changed in order this functions
to be really useful.
I've wrote the following post: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=149903&p=807023#p806176 which explain
enough well how both features should work...

Three major points should be refined in order to have fully functional, and easy to use Score Editor:

1. Completely New Design of the Score Editor + tons of improvements

2. Completely New Expression Maps - exactly as they work in Overture 5.5.
The expression mapping was in Overture long before their integration into Cubase.
To me is some kind of enigma why the EM in Cubase are so terrible and useless, since
there is an existing example how they actually must work?!

3. A New Conception about the Instrument/MIDI tracks is needed. Let's call it a "Traditional
Orchestral Score Sheet". Another thing which already exists in Overture 5.5 /this application
could serve as the best example for this, too
/.
It's so easy in Overture to load all per instrument library patches into a single Kontakt instance and to
rout them to a single Staff/Track.

Probably Steinberg should invite Don Williams, from Sonic Scores, to help them to properly integrate
this new conception. ;-)

That's it! :-)

Greetings :-)

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:35 am
by giafin
I agree totally with Thurisaz's post above

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:57 am
by -steve-
Thurisaz wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:12 am
[...]Unfortunately the Score Editor and the Expression Maps are nice as idea, but totally useless in practice. :(
I'm curious to understand why you don't simply use Overture?

Re: Cubase/Dorico Integration?

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:20 am
by Thurisaz
-steve- wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:57 am
Thurisaz wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:12 am
[...]Unfortunately the Score Editor and the Expression Maps are nice as idea, but totally useless in practice. :(
I'm curious to understand why you don't simply use Overture?
Steve hello,
Of course I'm using Overture as main tool for working with MIDI. Since I've started using this application, at the end of 2017, despite
some problems, it became my main software for composing, arranging and orchestrating. :-) Then I export the Audio from Overture and import it
into Cubase. I rarely use Cubase Pro for MIDI editing, only if I have to work with synths.
Well I would like to have "All in one", so, that's why I insist for this huge improvement, which will make our life much easier... especially
for those of us who prefer the notation instead of midi mock-up. :-)
Overture is The Best example how the things should be implemented. Very intuitive, fast and easy to use... Follows exactly the meaning of
"Creativity First". You don't have to waste so much time on creativity killer things like the Manual, tons of tech stuffs.. :-)

Greetings :-)