Better concept for Quick Controls

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GalbE
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Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by GalbE » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:17 pm

Better midi control possibilities would be highly appreciated. Quick Controls are very limited and confusing. I still work with Reaper a lot for the brilliant integration of midi learn for every parameter of every plugin and instrument (midi learn the last touched parameter). I wish I had that in Cubase too.
And when you guys are at it: the midi LFO/envelope follower and link to other parameter functions in Reaper are very cool too :)
===== GalbE =====
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ckon
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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by ckon » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:48 pm

They can't do anything more with quick controls until they fix the broken behaviour regarding disable/enable....wrong control recall. Dont know how long that will take....been an age already.
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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by cubace » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:58 pm

The hole concept of hardware controllers need to be reworked. I see QC as great start when it was first introduced, but it seems to died. A limit of 8 might have been a good limitation in the 80's, now it is silly.

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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by McBass » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:26 am

The problem has aways been making a controller work with an endless variety of plugins and plugin layouts when the better way to go would to be invent a standard controller layout and then make the endless variety of plugins conform to the controller. (Or at least a basic control set of said plugins with and advanced tab to get at other parameters with a mouse). Always felt that Softube and console1 are on the right track but too limited to cover a wider array of plugins. On another note, quick controls never worked for me. I felt that assigned QCs should be saved on a per plugin basis and be recalled and automatically mapped to whatever plugin is open and in the active window. studio one can do this with any mackie control protocol unit and also other controllers as well. This is one of my top wished for mixing features to be implemented in Cubase. That and a plugin widow paradigm that can follow the selected mixer track...also like Studio one and other daws.
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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by Funkybot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:23 pm

I've got a Remote Zero SL MK1. It's nearly perfect for controlling effects because you can create a "Generic Compressor" and "Generic Reverb" template, or even a "Generic Channel Strip" and there are LEDs so you can see the parameter names. Then, if you've got the right DAW (not Cubase), you can map those to your favorite plugins/combinations of plugins and not have to worry about which knob is linked to which parameter. Your Input Gain knob will always be input gain if the plugin offers it, your ratio knob will always be ratio, your threshold knob will always control threshold, mix/mix, etc. If your plugin doesn't offer those features, you just map the ones it does have. So one "Generic Compressor" map can be made that will work to control the key features of all my compressor plugins. This is exactly how I've got my plugins mapped in other DAWs.

Not in Cubase though.

The 8 Quick Controls thing is antiquated, especially for a DAW with such a robust MIDI feature set. The way it should work is:

1. Any MIDI Device that transmits MIDI Messages should be able to be quickly MIDI Learned and setup as a Generic Remote - the Learn process should create a panel for the device

2. When a plugin window is open and in focus, users should be able to select one or more Generic Remotes from the plugin menu, and go into a Learn Mode where they turn a knob on the Controller, turn on a knob on the plugin interface, and they are mapped. Now repeat for other assignments. Right click a knob to open a menu to undo an assignment. This should work for [at least] all parameters with VST automation bound to them, since this is what we want to ultimately write.

3. There should be no limits on how many parameters a user can map, as long as they have available MIDI messages to be mapped (so up to 127 CC's x 16 channels per device - NRPNs would be great too).

4. When the user exits Learn Mode, the plugin mappings should be saved automatically. No additional action needed. These should be stored somewhere behind the scenes, and automatically transfer over whenever Cubase is upgraded.

5. Now, any time that plugin window is active, and in Focus, the mapping should be active.

6. Any other instances of that plugin, or any time it is loaded going forward, should automatically load the saved mapping.

7. If the user wants to map DAW parameters, there should be an option to enable a "DAW mode." This mode would override the "Plugin Focus" mode if otherwise enabled, and allow users to use their Generic Remote not to control plugins, but to control Cubase features (faders, pans, sends, channel strip parameters, etc). It would have a similar Learn Mode, and similarly, these mappings should be retained.

If you do that, Cubase will become as least as MIDI Learn friendly as some competing DAWs which handle remote control much better IMO.

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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by Funkybot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:25 pm

If improving remote control is important to you, be sure to go to the survey at the top of this forum and vote for it (along with other enhancements you'd like to see), if you haven't already.

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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by cubace » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:31 pm

Funkybot wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:23 pm
I've got a Remote Zero SL MK1. It's nearly perfect for controlling effects because you can create a "Generic Compressor" and "Generic Reverb" template, or even a "Generic Channel Strip" and there are LEDs so you can see the parameter names. Then, if you've got the right DAW (not Cubase), you can map those to your favorite plugins/combinations of plugins and not have to worry about which knob is linked to which parameter. Your Input Gain knob will always be input gain if the plugin offers it, your ratio knob will always be ratio, your threshold knob will always control threshold, mix/mix, etc. If your plugin doesn't offer those features, you just map the ones it does have. So one "Generic Compressor" map can be made that will work to control the key features of all my compressor plugins. This is exactly how I've got my plugins mapped in other DAWs.

Not in Cubase though.

The 8 Quick Controls thing is antiquated, especially for a DAW with such a robust MIDI feature set. The way it should work is:

1. Any MIDI Device that transmits MIDI Messages should be able to be quickly MIDI Learned and setup as a Generic Remote - the Learn process should create a panel for the device

2. When a plugin window is open and in focus, users should be able to select one or more Generic Remotes from the plugin menu, and go into a Learn Mode where they turn a knob on the Controller, turn on a knob on the plugin interface, and they are mapped. Now repeat for other assignments. Right click a knob to open a menu to undo an assignment. This should work for [at least] all parameters with VST automation bound to them, since this is what we want to ultimately write.

3. There should be no limits on how many parameters a user can map, as long as they have available MIDI messages to be mapped (so up to 127 CC's x 16 channels per device - NRPNs would be great too).

4. When the user exits Learn Mode, the plugin mappings should be saved automatically. No additional action needed. These should be stored somewhere behind the scenes, and automatically transfer over whenever Cubase is upgraded.

5. Now, any time that plugin window is active, and in Focus, the mapping should be active.

6. Any other instances of that plugin, or any time it is loaded going forward, should automatically load the saved mapping.

7. If the user wants to map DAW parameters, there should be an option to enable a "DAW mode." This mode would override the "Plugin Focus" mode if otherwise enabled, and allow users to use their Generic Remote not to control plugins, but to control Cubase features (faders, pans, sends, channel strip parameters, etc). It would have a similar Learn Mode, and similarly, these mappings should be retained.

If you do that, Cubase will become as least as MIDI Learn friendly as some competing DAWs which handle remote control much better IMO.
It time to say good bye to midi. Avid has shown that it network protocols that is the right way. For sure you can tweak anything through midi. But it is not the right way it's limitations is make things more complex.

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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by Funkybot » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:30 pm

cubace wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:31 pm
It time to say good bye to midi. Avid has shown that it network protocols that is the right way. For sure you can tweak anything through midi. But it is not the right way it's limitations is make things more complex.
There are countless MIDI devices in the wild. As a spec, MIDI 2.0 was just formally ratified. It's not going anywhere.

EDIT
Also, good luck getting all the various manufacturers to agree upon and support some kind of network protocol (read: a new standard) and then getting all the DAW makers to support it too. How has that worked to date? Suddenly, MIDI looks a lot better right?

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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by cubace » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:14 am

Funkybot wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:30 pm
cubace wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:31 pm
It time to say good bye to midi. Avid has shown that it network protocols that is the right way. For sure you can tweak anything through midi. But it is not the right way it's limitations is make things more complex.
There are countless MIDI devices in the wild. As a spec, MIDI 2.0 was just formally ratified. It's not going anywhere.

EDIT
Also, good luck getting all the various manufacturers to agree upon and support some kind of network protocol (read: a new standard) and then getting all the DAW makers to support it too. How has that worked to date? Suddenly, MIDI looks a lot better right?
Yes, there is a lot of woods around, therefore the car manufactures need to keep wood wheels. To make a standard you some parties to agree that it is a good idea. It is good if they are major players like Yamaha/Steinberg, however they can't do it alone. They could do it with some other like Mackie, icon. Making a network protocol standard can be done within IETF or AES. From what I have seen om MIDI2.0 protocol spec it is a total disaster. Some really good intentions but they are not make anything useful. There are some useful improvements for some old annoying limitations and they open fore lot more in the future. However, MIDI is for musical instruments, and DAW remote controller is not a musical instrument. (And protocol should probably also consider VIDEO for remote control functionality)

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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by msy » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:01 pm

GalbE wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:17 pm
Better midi control possibilities would be highly appreciated. Quick Controls are very limited and confusing. I still work with Reaper a lot for the brilliant integration of midi learn for every parameter of every plugin and instrument (midi learn the last touched parameter). I wish I had that in Cubase too.
And when you guys are at it: the midi LFO/envelope follower and link to other parameter functions in Reaper are very cool too :)
+ 1000.
I have done requests about QC/midi cc for the last years... bring us global midi control handling. And macros so you can change several parametres with one knob. Also setting Parameter range.....it is impossible to do in Cubase still.
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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by beatpete » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:21 pm

+1 for me too. I would love to have several programmable and switchable pages of quick controls. Similar to what Nektar have implemented with Nektarine and what NI have inplemented with Komplete Kontrol.
I love that I can use quick controls (only 8 of course) with my Avid Artist because I can overwrite automation and flip to the faders. if we just had access to more banks, it would be pretty good. It's almost there (sort of)...
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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by G-row12 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:29 pm

+1000 I prefer something like Instrument rack and effect rack with multi-mapping like Ableton.

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Re: Better concept for Quick Controls

Post by tepa » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:41 pm

msy wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:01 pm
+ 1000.
I have done requests about QC/midi cc for the last years... bring us global midi control handling. And macros so you can change several parametres with one knob. Also setting Parameter range.....it is impossible to do in Cubase still.
+1
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