N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Aldersyde » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:44 pm

miguelnunes wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:51 pm
twelvetwelve wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:16 am
Attached is how I have it set up which I find fine to use.
Tried it already, couldn't get used to it.
I like coloured waveforms, working like that since N3.
Why remove the transparent events option?!
I simply don't get it.

Cheers.
Exactly. I just don't understand the logic behind it. It was hard enough, even with the transparent mode, to find a color scheme that I could look at for long periods.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:42 pm

Ok.

I've been working with the update for a while now, and all the new advantages considered, I very much still miss transparent mode. One of the big things is that regardless of track's assigned color (I like editing with a solid black waveform on a gray background), and say for example the tracks are in a brown folder, the tracks all appear as brown. I categorize my folders by color. With transparent mode this was never a problem. In the present update it's incredibly disappointing.

Now each time not only do I have to turn off folder color or move a track outside a folder in order to work as I like, I must also include the additional workflow step of cursing whomever decided in their infinite wisdom to "fix" what was never broken in the first place. This takes time.

If anybody has found a workaround for this particular problem I'm all ears. In the meantime, still waiting to hear from Steinberg here in regards to whether this was just an oversight or if we're going to have to learn to live with the current degraded functionality. Please say something. We still love you. But this situation bites.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by twelvetwelve » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:40 am

I'm okay with this change. It brings the Cubase code over to Nuendo which will hopefully mean there's only 1 event display model they need to keep updated instead of 2. Of course it would be nice to now add additional options to that (like transparent events or the Cubase selection method if the user wants) but it's a step in the right direction for sure. Now event names over events are actually usable instead of getting buried in the waveform as it was before.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:14 pm

With all due respect, this topic is specifically about the loss of transparent events, not about hypothetical postulations regarding how difficult Cubendo is to code or where it should go. The recent update presented lots of new advantages, none of which either have anything to do with this thread, and I (and clearly many others) applaud them.

But the unannounced and undocumented removal of transparent events is a problem for those of us whose workflow includes it. That's why I started this thread.

I'd like to hear from Steinberg about this.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Luis Dongo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:07 pm

Hello Chewy,

first of all, please accept my apologies for the issues caused by changing the Event Display options in Nuendo 10.1.

I have just learned that this is a side effect from merging the Cubase with the Nuendo codebases. The Event Display settings in Cubase used a different technology than the one Nuendo had been using for the last few years, and reportedly the older technology was starting to cause incompatibility issues on newer Operating Systems, which is why the newer Cubase settings (with many more display options) was imported into Nuendo.

Unfortunately Transparent Events was never an option in Cubase, thus the current situation. We are investigating the feasibility of implementing this as a new feature in an upcoming update, but it might take a while until it is back in Nuendo.

Again, I am very sorry and hope you can find a workaround to keep working with the current Nuendo version until we can offer you a better alternative.

All the best,
Luis Dongo
Marketing Manager - Pro Audio

Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Aldersyde » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:36 pm

Luis Dongo wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:07 pm
Hello Chewy,

first of all, please accept my apologies for the issues caused by changing the Event Display options in Nuendo 10.1.

I have just learned that this is a side effect from merging the Cubase with the Nuendo codebases. The Event Display settings in Cubase used a different technology than the one Nuendo had been using for the last few years, and reportedly the older technology was starting to cause incompatibility issues on newer Operating Systems, which is why the newer Cubase settings (with many more display options) was imported into Nuendo.

Unfortunately Transparent Events was never an option in Cubase, thus the current situation. We are investigating the feasibility of implementing this as a new feature in an upcoming update, but it might take a while until it is back in Nuendo.

Again, I am very sorry and hope you can find a workaround to keep working with the current Nuendo version until we can offer you a better alternative.

All the best,
Thanks very much. It would be great to get this option back.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:26 pm

Thank you, Luis. I very much appreciate your response.

As much as I value the improvements in Nuendo 10, the loss of Transparent Events does impact my general experience to the point where I'm not going to upgrade right now, at least until the shock and dismay work themselves out. I know it will all work out one way or another in the long run, and I do want what is in store with future iterations of N10. I've been asking for and looking forward to the cue sheet generation feature since N2, and we've all been waiting on video export. But as silly as it may sound, Transparent Events is enough a part of my modus operandi that its loss is, at least initially, keeping me from enthusiastically moving forward.

I hope Transparent Events come back sooner than later. I don't presume to be anything close to a coder-- I don't know anything about that stuff, but how hard could it be to figure this one out?

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Aldersyde » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:14 pm

By the way, just to start a discussion and see if others are in agreement, I would like to have transparent events for audio only. For me I like the added color for MIDI parts.

If this feature is going to be programmed from scratch and others are in agreement, it might be just as easy to reprogram the transparent mode for audio events only or at least with a choice of whether to use it for MIDI tracks.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by miguelnunes » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:32 pm

Luis Dongo wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:07 pm
Hello Chewy,

first of all, please accept my apologies for the issues caused by changing the Event Display options in Nuendo 10.1.

I have just learned that this is a side effect from merging the Cubase with the Nuendo codebases. The Event Display settings in Cubase used a different technology than the one Nuendo had been using for the last few years, and reportedly the older technology was starting to cause incompatibility issues on newer Operating Systems, which is why the newer Cubase settings (with many more display options) was imported into Nuendo.

Unfortunately Transparent Events was never an option in Cubase, thus the current situation. We are investigating the feasibility of implementing this as a new feature in an upcoming update, but it might take a while until it is back in Nuendo.

Again, I am very sorry and hope you can find a workaround to keep working with the current Nuendo version until we can offer you a better alternative.

All the best,
Luis,

Something's fishy here. Is Steinberg not aware of how big of a change this move was for a good portion of Nuendo users? I don't believe that.
Ive been with Nuendo since V3, the " color" workspace changed throughout the years, but never like this, without even a note on the Documentation.
If your reasons to make such a drastic (imo) move, have to do with something Cubase related, Im sorry but that is pure laziness.
Im sorry if Im being rude, but the fact that some of us that updated to N10.1 wishing to take advantage of the new features, immediately reverted to previous versions after the matter, should tell you guys something about the major role that visual interaction with a Daw has, while working on Audio.
I really hope you guys will reverse this, seems like you guys keep on giving, but lets take it back also, and this time you guys took it back big time.
Anyways, thanks for the reply and clarifications, hope that Steinberg will acknowledge our concerns.

Thanks,

Cheers.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by yonah » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:30 am

I support all of you guys! As you lost transparent events - I'm shocked by jumping fade and volume object handles following the cursor. Looks like it all came from cubase. It's impossible for me to edit objects in such a disturbing manner. I'm post editor. This thing hurts me a lot. Steinberg! Please revert this!

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Splaaat » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:41 am

Robin Walsh wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:36 am
twelvetwelve wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:16 am
Attached is how I have it set up which I find fine to use.
I love that color palette!!! That should be the default!!
Agreed, that colour palette looks really nice! I don’t like mine anymore.
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by lordExtra » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:46 am

I went from Cubase to Nuendo mainly because of the waveform display. I just need to be able to view the audio data, short of all this pointless eye candy as found in Cubase. I mean, seriously...who does this help? What does this accomplish?

You guys ought to take a sharp look at Live, S1, PT and dump this 90s bs for good.
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by basicX » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:50 am

lordExtra wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:46 am
You guys ought to take a sharp look at Live, S1, PT and dump this 90s bs for good.
+1
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by miguelnunes » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:38 pm

lordExtra wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:46 am
I went from Cubase to Nuendo mainly because of the waveform display. I just need to be able to view the audio data, short of all this pointless eye candy as found in Cubase. I mean, seriously...who does this help? What does this accomplish?

You guys ought to take a sharp look at Live, S1, PT and dump this 90s bs for good.
+100

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:32 pm

I hope that when Transparent Mode comes back, it will be as it is in previous versions, WITHOUT those deeply annoying diagonal lines that show up on overlapping areas. They look like a GUI error, not a thoughtful design feature. Does anybody like it? The dark/opaque overlap without the slash marks is much, much easier on the eyes, as I see it.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Aldersyde » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:57 pm

Chewy Papadopoulos wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:32 pm
I hope that when Transparent Mode comes back, it will be as it is in previous versions, WITHOUT those deeply annoying diagonal lines that show up on overlapping areas. They look like a GUI error, not a thoughtful design feature. Does anybody like it? The dark/opaque overlap without the slash marks is much, much easier on the eyes, as I see it.

Chewy
That's an interesting point.

The thing that i would prefer if it was up to me would be to have separate choices with MIDI and audio for transparent mode.

I prefer transparent mode with audio but not with MIDI where I do like the color in the background as it makes it a little easier to see where the content is.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Otto Dix » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:39 am

My personal palette is deeply different from Nuendo "Dark Mode" environment since, since... N5 ? N6 ? can't remember when it turned dark. I was used to early Cubase then early Nuendo classic clear Project Window background. Now I have to customize everything, none of default color Preferences are kept.

So my issue is maybe very different from issues reported here.

I keep my Project window background clear white with a very subtle hint of blue. This palette worked very well for me for ages. I have set this color Preference within N10 as well.

Automation curves used to be displayed in dark grey over this clear background. But N10 displays those curves as invisible... I have now to fly pointer over Automation lines to make automation points appear. But curves still don't. Very annoying.

Strangely, when Read automation is switched off, those curves do appear...

I guess curve color is linked to background color in a different way now. ahem, please developers make it back as it used to be and please don't die ! love you guys.
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by mtouren » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:02 pm

+1. I would prefer that only the waveform will be colored.
Last edited by mtouren on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by chi_mike » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:44 am

This is the sole reason I bought Nuendo!

As a software developer ( obj-c, java, etc back-end and front end) the excuse of using the Cubase codebase and NOT re-implemeting a Nuendo specific feature is crap.

There is NOTHING in in Catalina for example, that prevents transparent events, even from some custom FFT imaging API. Hell in iOS from day one, you can get the waveform display and NOT have a color border surrounding it. It doesn't matter the codebase you use, C, C++. Swift, Juce.

What matters is the use of an API / framework from the CHEAPER daw to crap out the UI of the more expensive daw. Yes I understand that you want to have a unified UI / UX for the user base, that's cool. But , this is COMMON knowledge, the more expensive product IS treated different with more advanced UI. Not just a few extra features. But also UI enhancements.

When I worked at a major fin-tech company, the cheaper software got the cheaper UI, the more expensive software got the more expensive UI, bells and whistles.

Bring back transparent events!
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by BendingBus » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:08 am

The reason I’ve been with transparent events since around N2 is that audio is about AUDIO (shocking, I know).

An “event” is not something the listener hears. They hear audio, which is represented by the waveform. I really don’t want to look at a bunch of annoying colored blocks all over my screen, I want to see the resulting waveforms. Using a combination of transparent events, versions instead of lanes, and visual settings, with N10 I’ve finally been able to make Nuendo’s messy project window clean. I really only need to see the faintest line around the event, it definitely should not be the focus as I’m recording audio not arranging samples.

Bring back transparent events, this should be a priority, it’s not a minor thing.
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by miguelnunes » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:08 pm

chi_mike wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:44 am
This is the sole reason I bought Nuendo!

As a software developer ( obj-c, java, etc back-end and front end) the excuse of using the Cubase codebase and NOT re-implemeting a Nuendo specific feature is crap.

There is NOTHING in in Catalina for example, that prevents transparent events, even from some custom FFT imaging API. Hell in iOS from day one, you can get the waveform display and NOT have a color border surrounding it. It doesn't matter the codebase you use, C, C++. Swift, Juce.

What matters is the use of an API / framework from the CHEAPER daw to crap out the UI of the more expensive daw. Yes I understand that you want to have a unified UI / UX for the user base, that's cool. But , this is COMMON knowledge, the more expensive product IS treated different with more advanced UI. Not just a few extra features. But also UI enhancements.

When I worked at a major fin-tech company, the cheaper software got the cheaper UI, the more expensive software got the more expensive UI, bells and whistles.

Bring back transparent events!
Mentioned something like that on a post above.
Thanks for clarifying and validating my thoughts.
Insightful post, thanks.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by miguelnunes » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:11 pm

BendingBus wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:08 am
Bring back transparent events, this should be a priority, it’s not a minor thing.
Absolutely on point.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by chi_mike » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:26 pm

I remember when they changed stuff in the version 4 of Cubendo, and people were *quiz*.

It's making me think of asking if transparent events will be a thing in Studio One...
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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by Aldersyde » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:13 pm

I agree with everyone. However it would be a great option to have transparent events only for audio.

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Re: N10.1: Is Transparent Mode Gone??

Post by chi_mike » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:08 pm

Is it back in 10.2? I don't need to update if it's not.
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