Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

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MattiasNYC
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:31 am

GTBannah wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:05 am
Wonderful application, if only it would stop crashing. I don't know if it's my computer, or what, but Resolve requires lots of resolve to get past the crashes.
Solid A- for pun.

I've had zero stability issues.
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by GTBannah » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:54 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:31 am
Solid A- for pun.
THanx! :lol:

[quoteI've had zero stability issues.
[/quote]
I'll give it another go (again). ;)
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Iftekharul Anam » Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:58 pm

GTBannah wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:39 pm

What about the music-making features; are those working well?

Are they indeed on par with Cubase?

The deal-breaker for me is the video-export functionality. If I have to go outside Nuendo, I might as well wait.

I just released my debut album working almost entirely within Nuendo 10.

I cross graded from Cubase, so I think I know that, almost everything is on par with Cubase. Well, I am saying 'almost' because there are still few things that are, in my opinion, much better in Cubase. For example, Cubase can remember VCA destination in a template while Nuendo still can't.

Otherwise, the video export functionality is awesome for small videos like music videos, short films and television commercials etc. But for large videos, like films, Nuendo can make the exported file size very very large.

But I suppose Nuendo is coming soon with more codecs.
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Christian van Caine » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:49 pm

Regarding DaVinci Resolve, we've actually had huge problems with it when working on a series of promos this summer. It refused to export in stereo, and everything was way too high, even beyond what a simple merging of two channels would normally result in. And the nulling was all over the place. Can't remember exactly what it sounded like anymore other than distorting to hell, but the director I was working with ditched Resolve altogether and muxxed in After Effects instead.
That program has a great possible future, but it's not there yet regretfully. At least not for us here.
https://abrokenlinemovie.blogspot.com/

Nuendo 10.2, Wavelab 9.5, Sound Forge Pro 12, Pro 24 III and Cubase 2.01/3.0 (Atari), full Adobe CS6-suite, Plugins from MAAT, Millennia, Eventide, Dolby, Weiss, Sound Toys, Izotope, SSL, and AudioEase to name a few.
Windows 10 Pro, Xeon 8-core, ASUS X99 E, Prism Sound Titan, Black Magic Intensity PCIe, Atari MEGA 4 STe with MIDEX+, every kind of hand-held (DPA/phone) known to man, Amiga 600 and a few 500, Commodore 64' and 128's. I am NOT getting into what I use on these, that would take a list of its own.
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Iftekharul Anam » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:19 pm

Christian van Caine wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:49 pm
Regarding DaVinci Resolve, we've actually had huge problems with it when working on a series of promos this summer. It refused to export in stereo, and everything was way too high, even beyond what a simple merging of two channels would normally result in. And the nulling was all over the place. Can't remember exactly what it sounded like anymore other than distorting to hell, but the director I was working with ditched Resolve altogether and muxxed in After Effects instead.
That program has a great possible future, but it's not there yet regretfully. At least not for us here.
I am sorry to know that. It works for me perfectly here. Were you using beta versions?
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:27 pm

People use Resolve professionally for commercial project in which audio is a part. I seriously doubt the problems you (van Caine) encountered were due to the software. It must have been an awfully random bug, an immature version, or more likely some mistake done by someone operating the software.
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Christian van Caine » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pm

Iftekharul Anam wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:19 pm

I am sorry to know that. It works for me perfectly here. Were you using beta versions?
Yeah, it seems pretty random, at least at the time (early summer), how well it works for different people. The colour-correction generally seems pretty rock solid, but the video-editor and sound-part was pretty fritzy what I heard. Myself I haven't really dug into it yet though, this was an issue for the editor of a project we filmed last spring and posted this summer.
https://abrokenlinemovie.blogspot.com/

Nuendo 10.2, Wavelab 9.5, Sound Forge Pro 12, Pro 24 III and Cubase 2.01/3.0 (Atari), full Adobe CS6-suite, Plugins from MAAT, Millennia, Eventide, Dolby, Weiss, Sound Toys, Izotope, SSL, and AudioEase to name a few.
Windows 10 Pro, Xeon 8-core, ASUS X99 E, Prism Sound Titan, Black Magic Intensity PCIe, Atari MEGA 4 STe with MIDEX+, every kind of hand-held (DPA/phone) known to man, Amiga 600 and a few 500, Commodore 64' and 128's. I am NOT getting into what I use on these, that would take a list of its own.
As much hardware gear, synthesizers, and sounding toys as I can possibly get my paws on. Including for the micro-computers.

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Christian van Caine » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:08 am

MattiasNYC wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:27 pm
People use Resolve professionally for commercial project in which audio is a part. I seriously doubt the problems you (van Caine) encountered were due to the software. It must have been an awfully random bug, an immature version, or more likely some mistake done by someone operating the software.
Of course it was a bug. And yes, a lot of people use it for commercial applications, and so will probably I eventually as I'm pretty *quiz* about how Adobe handle things, and Avid is simply too expensive as I only cut video occasionally, but of all the non-linear editors I know in the business I can't say a single one using it for video editing, only colour correction and some video effects. Actually, every single one (that has this for a living) that I asked if it could make for a decent replacement for Premiere advised strongly against it. And i know one less who would consider using it for muxxing anytime soon again.
Black Magic did however release a stable version this August. Dunnu how it is though, only have the spring version right now and am in no rush to upgrade right now.
https://abrokenlinemovie.blogspot.com/

Nuendo 10.2, Wavelab 9.5, Sound Forge Pro 12, Pro 24 III and Cubase 2.01/3.0 (Atari), full Adobe CS6-suite, Plugins from MAAT, Millennia, Eventide, Dolby, Weiss, Sound Toys, Izotope, SSL, and AudioEase to name a few.
Windows 10 Pro, Xeon 8-core, ASUS X99 E, Prism Sound Titan, Black Magic Intensity PCIe, Atari MEGA 4 STe with MIDEX+, every kind of hand-held (DPA/phone) known to man, Amiga 600 and a few 500, Commodore 64' and 128's. I am NOT getting into what I use on these, that would take a list of its own.
As much hardware gear, synthesizers, and sounding toys as I can possibly get my paws on. Including for the micro-computers.

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by yonah » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:10 pm

Nuendo 10 is not premature - it is UNUSABLE!

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Getalife2 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:13 pm

yonah wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:10 pm
Nuendo 10 is not premature - it is UNUSABLE!
Tell that to the record labels, A&R guys and artists I'm currently mixing successful songs for on Nuendo 10. We all think it works pretty great!
N10.0.20 - i7 5960X/32 GB at 4.3GHz with x7 SSDs - Win 7/64 - 2x RME MADI - 3X UAD-2 Quad - VEP

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by yonah » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:28 am

Ok it's partly usable for a small local purposes. But I can't use it for a normal feature postpro.

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by yonah » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:35 am

When I saw what they done to UNDO function - I was completely in shock. And it's only one thing they ruined. So I am unable to clean dialogs in RX with N10 for example. So maybe this record labels and A&D guys do just simple stuff in N10 - for me N10 is unusable for a complex project in postpro.

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by yonah » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:43 am

N10 is a total and complete misunderstanding by software designers for whom they make their product.

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by ErikG » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:47 am

yonah wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:43 am
N10 is a total and complete misunderstanding by software designers for whom they make their product.
I am currently working on my second feature film in N10 and we have done three drama series so far. Each production with multiple editors in the team.

Yes there are issues with the RX implementation but I can work around it until we get a proper solution.

Maybe you just are not good enough? :mrgreen: :twisted:
Just kidding of course but unusable it is not.
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Fredo » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:14 am

Now you got me worried.
We must be doing something wrong.
N10 running great here.

Fredo

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Dietz » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:27 am

Dear Fredo,

with all due respect - an application which isn't even able to re-open a project without losing significant aspects of its visual representation isn't running "great". Nuendo is "running", and that's about it. ... a somewhat battering statement for a v10 application, isn't it?
/Dietz

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by ErikG » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:44 am

Dietz wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:27 am
Dear Fredo,

with all due respect - an application which isn't even able to re-open a project without losing significant aspects of its visual representation isn't running "great". Nuendo is "running", and that's about it. ... a somewhat battering statement for a v10 application, isn't it?
Not sure what the above means? What significant aspects?
Transparent events? It is a intended change we can disagree with it but there nothing “wrong” with changing behaviour as such. It is called development.
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by uarte » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:04 pm

ErikG wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:47 am
yonah wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:43 am
N10 is a total and complete misunderstanding by software designers for whom they make their product.
I am currently working on my second feature film in N10 and we have done three drama series so far. Each production with multiple editors in the team.

Yes there are issues with the RX implementation but I can work around it until we get a proper solution.

Maybe you just are not good enough? :mrgreen: :twisted:
Just kidding of course but unusable it is not.
Also working on a feature here, working quite well. I try to avoid DOP for anything heavy though. I'm still using my old workflow for RX.

While I certainly want continued development/improvement towards workflow and more long-promised improvements to the video engine, for example (10.2 was a good step in the right direction BTW), N10 is *definitely* usable for feature work with tons of sound design. I'd use this over PT any day.

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by JezCorbett » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:31 pm

Fredo wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:14 am
Now you got me worried.
We must be doing something wrong.
N10 running great here.

Fredo
Let's be honest. You have a good, personal relationship with Steinberg. Like people like Hans Zimmer, they listen to you, and fix stuff that affects you.

The rest of us get straight up ignored.

I actually had a Steinberg rep reach out to me when I posted about my N issues on a professional game audio email list. I told them I had been ignored when I raised the issues here and they went quiet.

I'm still mad when I think back about the time I got banned from this forum for a week for pointing out the bugs subforum was completely ignored by steinberg staff, and had mods on here making snarky comments implying I didn't actually work in the games industry, despite me having been working in it for near 10 years at that point.
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by yonah » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:05 pm

JezCorbett wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:31 pm
Fredo wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:14 am
Now you got me worried.
We must be doing something wrong.
N10 running great here.

Fredo
Let's be honest. You have a good, personal relationship with Steinberg. Like people like Hans Zimmer, they listen to you, and fix stuff that affects you.

The rest of us get straight up ignored.

I actually had a Steinberg rep reach out to me when I posted about my N issues on a professional game audio email list. I told them I had been ignored when I raised the issues here and they went quiet.

I'm still mad when I think back about the time I got banned from this forum for a week for pointing out the bugs subforum was completely ignored by steinberg staff, and had mods on here making snarky comments implying I didn't actually work in the games industry, despite me having been working in it for near 10 years at that point.
Yes! You are 100% right. Nobody cares in steinberg. Nobody tries to figure out what is wrong. Nobody tries to rollback changes that ruined the way we worked.
When I buy programs from small independent companies (for example jBridge or AATranslator) I get answers within a couple of hours. And not even answers, but fixes and even personal test versions.
Here we can get only total silence.
So if I get silence - I assume that somebody is dead. Maybe it is steinberg?

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by uarte » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:26 pm

yonah wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:05 pm

....
Nobody cares in steinberg. Nobody tries to figure out what is wrong. Nobody tries to rollback changes that ruined the way we worked.
....
It's true that Steinberg has made many mistakes, and has some customer service and communication problems like many larger developers in this crowded DAW field, and I've been really angry with them at times... so I understand frustration. But when I read posts that say "nobody cares, nobody tries to figure out what is wrong..." I just think it is way off. Steinberg is made up of people just like you and they have lives and families and want to keep their jobs and make a good product like you do. And if they didn't care or didn't listen, why would they release the following fixes and features over the last several months? Maybe none of these fixes/features help you, and I wish they were smarter about releasing new features before thorough testing was completed, etc., but below are plenty of things many of us have been complaining about or asking for. And are you telling me there's NOTHING in there that you have been needing/requesting? They're clearly doing something and not just listening to Fredo and Hans Zimmer:

http://download.steinberg.net/downloads ... istory.pdf

CAN-24154 Direct Offline Processing Fixed a possible crash when applying REVerence as a Direct Offline Process.
CAN-24848 Direct Offline Processing Improved compatibility for Antares Autotune Graph Mode when applied as a Direct Offline Process.
CAN-24861 Export Project folder no longer gets changed unintentionally when exporting AAF files.
CAN-24780 MediaBay Previewing Clip Packages in the MediaBay now works as expected.
CAN-24804 MixConsole Linked Panners are now restored correctly when loading a project.
CAN-24898 MixConsole Downmixing from immersive sound formats to stereo now includes the top speakers correctly.
CAN-21879 Plug-ins The sound quality for VoiceDesigner when used at high sample rates has been improved.
CAN-23108 Plug-ins The sound quality for Distroyer when used with Oversampling option active has been improved.

Video Export (finally! Although it still needs a lot more features!)

CAN-23046 ARA Corrected playback behaviour when using ARA processes on multiple lanes for comping.
CAN-22875 ARA Improved responsiveness when using Melodyne via ARA on long events.
CAN-23179 ARA Playback now works correctly using ARA Extensions with Processing Precision set to 64it float.
CAN-24013 ARA Fixed a playback issue when using ARA Extensions on audio events with 96 kHz sample rate.
CAN-23405 Audio Connections Audio Connections I/O Presets now update correctly when switching to another audio hardware.
CAN-23086 Audio Export Imported MP3 audio files now appear with the correct length in the project.
CAN-22747 Control Room Master Meter settings’ strings are now translated correctly.
CAN-23399 Device Panels MIDI Device Panels of Instrument Tracks now restore correctly when loading projects.
CAN-15065 Direct Offline Processing DOP now retains parameter values correctly when reapplying plug-ins with Learn function.
CAN-22392 Drum Editor Drum Maps of VSTInstruments are now saved correctly with the project file.
CAN-24124 Export When exporting selected events, the paths are now updated correctly.
CAN-24602 Fades Fixed an stability issue when using Auto Fade in Equal Power mode.
CAN-23973 Field Recorder Field Recorder Audio Import no longer deletes audio files after performing an undo operation.
CAN-23716 Field Recorder Field Recorder Audio Import user interface now resizes correctly.
CAN-23133 Freeze File Save confirmation dialog now prompts correctly when closing a project after having used the Freeze function.
CAN-22256 General Non-latin characters are now displayed correctly.
CAN-24011 Markers CSV Marker Import user interface now resizes correctly.
CAN-23188 Markers The width of the attribute column in the CSV Marker Import panel has been corrected.
CAN-19882 MediaBay Fix for potential application freeze when browsing MIDI Loops in MediaBay.
CAN-23675 Metronome Fixed an issue where additional outputs could not be selected in the Metronome Setup window.
CAN-20076 MixConsole MixConsole Visibility Agents now display their active status correctly.
CAN-22745 MixConsole Copy / Paste of Instrument Track Channel Settings no longer modifies VST Instrument selection.
CAN-22652 MixConsole Channel Overview now shows the correct amount of channels after using Set Channel Filter for Channel Visibility.
CAN-23260 Note Expression Fixed a stability issue when working with Note Expressions.
CAN-23021 Note Expression Fixed a stability issue when editing Note Expression data.
CAN-23531 Plug-in The value range of Auto LFO MIDI plug-in is now restored correctly when loading projects.
CAN-22899 Plug-in VST MultiPanner Front/Rear Automation lane is no longer inversed after toggling Bed and Object mode.
CAN-22663 Plug-in Fixed a stability issue when using vintage Cubase plugins in a project.
CAN-22699 Plug-in Brickwall Limiter threshold parameter now shows a correct scale.
CAN-22845 Pool Pool Search mode user interface corrected.
CAN-18564 Project Window Track numbering corrected when adding tracks.
CAN-21951 Recording Direct Monitoring input metering corrected.
CAN-23727 Recording Record-enabling MIDI tracks no longer sends "All Notes Off".
CAN-22733 Sample Editor Fixed a stability issue when "Create MIDI Notes" from Hitpoints was triggered twice.
CAN-12327 Sampler Track Sampler Track now accepts improper audio files from Pro Tools.
CAN-23192 Sampler Track Key Editor toolbar Edit Sampler Control icon is now displayed correctly.
CAN-23738 Score Editor Score Editor handling corrected for Multi-Rests.
CAN-22599 Score Editor Corrected chord symbols in MusicXML export.
CAN-23350 Track Presets Extract Sound from Track Preset now works correctly for MIDI insert plug-ins.
CAN-21956 Transport Editing Locator Range Duration values now works correctly.
CAN-22548 Transport Editing Pre/Post-Roll and Punch In/Out values now work correctly.
CAN-23878 VST Instruments Instrument track name is now displayed correctly when using Japanese characters.
CAN-22943 VST Instruments Resizing HALion’s user interface now works correctly for mixed resolution multi-display setups.
CAN-22387 VariAudio Fixed an issue when using formant shifting on first VariAudio note segment produced distorted audio.
CAN-18817 Video Improved reliability of Full Screen video playback.
CAN-22697 Video Cut Detection Corrected behaviour of Video Cut Detection when applied to invalid selections.
CAN-22977 Video Cut Detection Fixed a stability issue when using Video Cut Detection.

ARA2 support
Cue sheet export
Split channels
Audio Alignment improvements

etc., etc., etc., etc...

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Dietz » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:28 pm

ErikG wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:44 am
Dietz wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:27 am
Dear Fredo,

with all due respect - an application which isn't even able to re-open a project without losing significant aspects of its visual representation isn't running "great". Nuendo is "running", and that's about it. ... a somewhat battering statement for a v10 application, isn't it?
Not sure what the above means? What significant aspects?
Transparent events? It is a intended change we can disagree with it but there nothing “wrong” with changing behaviour as such. It is called development.
I see, you're into snarky comments - maybe you are just one those lucky guys who can stand the default color scheme. I can't. Yes, I can change it - it's just that NU10 forgets these settings, and new Preferences can't get saved. The visual appearance is significant, in my book - otherwise we would still work with ASCII-based command line sequencers (been there, done that - thanks for asking).

Another un-adressed graphical issue is the way the appearance of folder tracks is recalled: There is the option to hide the folder tracks' contents once its opened. A clever feature which reduces screen clutter considerably. Thing is: Nuendo simply forgets this setting when recalling a project, which leads to small, but increasing irritation. And the list goes on.

... yes, I use NU10 for real-world work, but I don't dig the application any more. The smell of carelessness ... :-P
/Dietz

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| soundware | development |

| Nuendo versions from 5.5.6 to 10.2.0 | on various systems and platforms |
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by yonah » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:44 pm

uarte wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:26 pm
yonah wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:05 pm

....
Nobody cares in steinberg. Nobody tries to figure out what is wrong. Nobody tries to rollback changes that ruined the way we worked.
....
...
It's true that Steinberg has made many mistakes, and has some customer service and communication problems like many larger developers in this crowded DAW field, and I've been really angry with them at times... so I understand frustration. But when I read posts that say "nobody cares, nobody tries to figure out what is wrong..." I just think it is way off. Steinberg is made up of people just like you and they have lives and families and want to keep their jobs and make a good product like you do. And if they didn't care or didn't listen, why would they release the following fixes and features over the last several months? Maybe none of these fixes/features help you, and I wish they were smarter about releasing new features before thorough testing was completed, etc., but below are plenty of things many of us have been complaining about or asking for. And are you telling me there's NOTHING in there that you have been needing/requesting? They're clearly doing something and not just listening to Fredo and Hans Zimmer:

http://download.steinberg.net/downloads ... istory.pdf

CAN-24154 Direct Offline Processing Fixed a possible crash when applying REVerence as a Direct Offline Process.

etc., etc., etc., etc...

...
It's bug fixes! But they make some significant changes without asking - and a lot of people dislikes this, and they doesnt't care about them.
Nuendo look doesn't significantly changed since version 2. And now we get this in N10.
Undo function is terrible. Auto-save is still terrible. I work on huge projects and I know what is 30 seconds autosave. etc etc
And by the way - every final version they made was left off with a lot off bugs, that would be never fixed.

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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by klfnk » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:15 am

Hi Yonah,
I'm a new user to Nuendo (have worked with cubase 5 loooong ago). I'm not certain I agree with the sentiment of this threads title.
Any software will be released prematurely, simply because it will never be perfect. If you say you work on huge projects, you'll probably agree that things can always be better. Just a little tweak here and there.. but budgets/time/other projects demanding attention etc etc.
Now look at N10. The feature set, the stability (I have worked extensively with PT in the last 10 years and believe me when I say I've seen instability), rock solid video playback (I'm in post). I've been having so much workflow upgrades since stepping into Nuendo land, I can't really believe there's actual complaints about it.
But I get it, you are used to how things used to work for you and now they've changed without asking. What do you expect? You really think Steinberg is in the position to ask every user for advice and a wishlist? Let's be a bit more humble that we have excellent software for a fair price (compared to at least PT) and FREE (again not with PT) bug fixes (I ran into the reverence bug and now it's fix, yes!).

Unless someone has smoking gun proof that this release was premature, let's just focus on reporting bugs, expressing wished features and report what we are missing from older versions, instead of having this all gathered in one huge thread.. it's simply a waste of time.
But more importantly it takes away attention from well argumented wishes, bug reports and other important discussions.

To round it of: I think your grievances are real and Steinberg should fix things as best as they can, I'm just hoping we can do it in a deliberate and focused manner.

Cheers!

Oliver.Lucas
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Re: Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:08 pm

I came here to see what has happened in Nuendo land.
Have never used N10 tbh.
But it IS interesting to read that post guys cry out while music guys don‘t.
It is also interesting to read that RX still does not work.
It is even more interesting that basic stuff like autosave or undo causes problems.

So, 10=8 in Hambug, in a way.

Just observing..., everybody seems to see his or her part of the truth.
Main machine: Fireface UFX+ 64GB, 2TB Hecacore macmini 10.14.x, egpu
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