Control Surface for Nuendo

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Splaaat
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Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:58 am

Hi guys,

I've been looking at adding a control surface to my setup to speed up my workflow. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Steinberg/Yamaha have any plans to release a DAW specific budget control surface. I recently setup MetaGrid on an iPad for shortcuts & macros and I'm quite happy with it. I wish it supported faders and knobs as well.

I used to own an Avid Artist Mix and ended up selling it since I really didn't feel the need for it while handling music mixing and mastering jobs. Currently, I've started doing a lot of post-production jobs and really feel like I could use faders for automation. I've been looking at the Steinberg CC121 and the Avid S1.

The CC121 is almost 11 years old and while some of it's features look great, I'm not too happy with the price for such an old product. Secondly, I wish the EQ section was just a bunch of freely assignable knobs. I guess Quick Control does the trick. I've also read reports about the fader being jittery. An updated CC121 with a few extra features would be amazing.

With the Avid S1, which costs a lot more, I'm not too sure on how good the Eucon integration with Nuendo is. Does it follow the selection in the MixConsole? If the Control app works as well as it does with Protools, with meters and stuff, it'll be great. I've downloaded the Control app and will test it with Nuendo shortly.

Does anyone have any other recommendations or comments on the Eucon integration?
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Niekbeem » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:20 am

I'm not too sure on how good the Eucon integration with Nuendo is.
Back in the days that EuCon was written by Euphonix, Nuendo was the application for which it was tailor made. And; the Euphonix MC Pro https://www.rspeaudio.com/Articles.asp?ID=283 is a 100% match. I can say that from my own experience.
If you're on the search for a serious controller, I think the MC Pro is the best you can get, but: it's old, so you won't be able to use it without issues. :?
Does anyone have any other recommendations or comments on the Eucon integration?
Just ask me/us your questions and I'll be happy to answer them.

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:42 pm

If you are on a tight budget go touch screen. Im my home studio I use Dtouch with 27” touch screen. (You can have multible screens, I have one touch screen and one normal for video, metering etc)

With Dtouch you can assign as many user assignable buttons as you need, you have multitouch faders (are very responsive and accurate) and a lot more cool stuff (like overlayed panner for video) to make your workflow fast and easy.

There is another thread here regarding Dtouch.

But if you really need real buttons etc, then it is a no go for you atm. But they are developing a real 24 fader bank with few assignable buttons per channel. Don’t know when it will be out but they are trying to make it reasonable priced...
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by cyrileg » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:37 pm

Hello
The YAMAHA NUAGE for post production is the best tool with Nuendo, but I know it's expensive. I bought mine used. But It's really a sensational tool with Nuendo.
Otherwise an S1 or an artist control + mix works well, and the EUCON protocol is very well recognized by Nuendo. On the other hand it is difficult to make quickly EQ or send manipulations for example.
Finally, there was the SmartAv Tango that I know with Pyramix and it was very good stuff, but it is no longer produced (ask Fenderchris for more details)
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MarcusStaffel » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:46 pm

May be you could test an iPad with Steinberg Cubase iC Pro. It is supposed for Cubase, but should work with Nuendo too. Perhaps you have to install the Steinberg SKI Remote Extension on your DAW. Then makros should be no Problem. But I did not test it.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Jean-Michel B » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:57 pm

Steinberg Cubase iC Pro works well with Nuendo, but PT control from AVID (free app for iPad) works perfectly as well !
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by fuzzydude » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:11 am

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:42 pm
There is another thread here regarding Dtouch.

But if you really need real buttons etc, then it is a no go for you atm. But they are developing a real 24 fader bank with few assignable buttons per channel. Don’t know when it will be out but they are trying to make it reasonable priced...
Do you mean Devil Technologies are developing a hardware controller for Cubase/Nuendo?
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:30 pm

Last I heard they had scrapped those plans, so if they are it's news to me.

Back a few years ago they asked about that on Gearslutz trying to figure out what users wanted. They had a prototype I believe and on their website there was a product page for an upcoming "Grande" controller. That page no longer works (and I'm generally skeptic of companies whose webpages don't work in 2019).

So I'd be surprised if they develop something.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:31 pm

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:57 pm

fuzzydude wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:11 am
Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:42 pm
There is another thread here regarding Dtouch.

But if you really need real buttons etc, then it is a no go for you atm. But they are developing a real 24 fader bank with few assignable buttons per channel. Don’t know when it will be out but they are trying to make it reasonable priced...
Do you mean Devil Technologies are developing a hardware controller for Cubase/Nuendo?
Yes, to work with Dtouch. 24 faders should align perfectly with 27” touch screen monitor.
This is what they have told...
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:23 pm

When was this?
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:50 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:23 pm
When was this?
In the last two years
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by fuzzydude » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:30 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:50 pm
MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:23 pm
When was this?
In the last two years
Where did here this and are there any links to this info that you're aware of?
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:45 pm

On their forum. There is a private section there. So can’t link if you are not a ”member”...
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:01 pm

Well, they've had that large controller prototype for a while so I'd imagine they either gave up on it or it is difficult or they're just not making it much a priority... Development is probably expensive too.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:09 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:01 pm
Well, they've had that large controller prototype for a while so I'd imagine they either gave up on it or it is difficult or they're just not making it much a priority... Development is probably expensive too.
I guess that console never had its glory days.
But this new system is based on already fully functional daw controller via touch screen that has 24 fader bank window. The new controller is due to be able to replace that if user wants real faders and some real buttons.

It will be very interresting... If reasonably priced...
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:56 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if there was more on the market. 24 faders with pots and metering/labels would be great to have if price and quality is good.

But the video was posted a decade ago and that post two years ago so I'm not holding my breath..
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:45 am

MattiasNYC wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:56 pm
Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if there was more on the market. 24 faders with pots and metering/labels would be great to have if price and quality is good.

But the video was posted a decade ago and that post two years ago so I'm not holding my breath..
This new (not grande) unit is still alive. Last I know they have an almost fully working beta on their hands. This is from august I believe.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:34 am

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

Dtouch looks amazing, but unfortunately it's only for Windows. I guess touch screens and macOS aren't there yet.

Nuage is currently a bit out of my price range. A smaller budget friendly version would be amazing. I also want to be sure, I can integrate it's features into my workflow. I've rarely gotten along with boards with faders, even though I've been mixing professionally for over a decade.

I'm leaning towards the Avid S1. S3 I feel is a bit overpriced and I don't really need the interface features. I'm quite happy with Metagrid + iPad for shortcuts/macros for now.

Cubase iC Pro hasn't been updated in 2 years. Steinberg seems to have no interest in controllers. :(
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Keyplayer » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:43 am

Jean-Michel B wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:57 pm
Steinberg Cubase iC Pro works well with Nuendo, but PT control from AVID (free app for iPad) works perfectly as well !

NOT accurate! PT Control has a bunch of bugs regarding Cubase/Nuendo, the most abhorrent being that selecting the tracks page will make Nuendo and EUCON crash! They are aware of this problem at Avid, as there have been many, many complaints about this. Avid points the finger at Steinberg. Steinberg points the finger at Avid and nothing is being done about it!

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=38 ... rol+Nuendo

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=40 ... rol+Nuendo (There are screen shots of the crash on this thread)

viewtopic.php?f=283&t=147640

These problems, apparently go all the way up to S6! I've seen posts where S6 owners are saying that EUCON doesn't work as well with Nuendo anymore, as well as Logic or DP. Avid has basically made EUCON PT specific! If you want ALL OF THE FEATURES TO WORK, YOU'LL HAVE TO WORK IN PRO TOOLS. So, be very careful about purchasing an S-1 or Artist Series. 95% of the basic features work with non PT DAWs. But lots of features that used to work don't any more as well as the complete omission of newer features. Ver. 18.3 was the last stable version of EUCON with Nuendo. Ver. 19.5 is a total nightmare and full of problems with PT users as well.

If you can come up with another option, look there first!!!
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:01 am

Keyplayer wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:43 am
Jean-Michel B wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:57 pm
Steinberg Cubase iC Pro works well with Nuendo, but PT control from AVID (free app for iPad) works perfectly as well !

NOT accurate! PT Control has a bunch of bugs regarding Cubase/Nuendo, the most abhorrent being that selecting the tracks page will make Nuendo and EUCON crash! They are aware of this problem at Avid, as there have been many, many complaints about this. Avid points the finger at Steinberg. Steinberg points the finger at Avid and nothing is being done about it!

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=38 ... rol+Nuendo

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=40 ... rol+Nuendo (There are screen shots of the crash on this thread)

viewtopic.php?f=283&t=147640

These problems, apparently go all the way up to S6! I've seen posts where S6 owners are saying that EUCON doesn't work as well with Nuendo anymore, as well as Logic or DP. Avid has basically made EUCON PT specific! If you want ALL OF THE FEATURES TO WORK, YOU'LL HAVE TO WORK IN PRO TOOLS. So, be very careful about purchasing an S-1 or Artist Series. 95% of the basic features work with non PT DAWs. But lots of features that used to work don't any more as well as the complete omission of newer features. Ver. 18.3 was the last stable version of EUCON with Nuendo. Ver. 19.5 is a total nightmare and full of problems with PT users as well.

If you can come up with another option, look there first!!!
Thanks for sharing this! I am a bit worried about such issues, so I'll make sure I can try the controllers out with Nuendo before I grab one of these. I would expect some of the PT specific features to not work and that is okay, but not if it is crashing the entire system. Avid is generally slow with bug fixes, but if both Steinberg and Avid are playing the blame game, I wouldn't expect them to resolve this anytime soon.

Unfortunately, the very expensive Nuage seems to be the only other option. Even just the fader bank seems to be around $12k. :cry:

Edit: Just tried out the PT|Control App via macOS Mojave. No crashes here by selecting 'Tracks' on a session with around 50 tracks. I'll try the app out over the next few days and report back.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Keyplayer » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:36 am

Splaaat wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:01 am
Keyplayer wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:43 am
Jean-Michel B wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:57 pm
Steinberg Cubase iC Pro works well with Nuendo, but PT control from AVID (free app for iPad) works perfectly as well !

NOT accurate! PT Control has a bunch of bugs regarding Cubase/Nuendo, the most abhorrent being that selecting the tracks page will make Nuendo and EUCON crash! They are aware of this problem at Avid, as there have been many, many complaints about this. Avid points the finger at Steinberg. Steinberg points the finger at Avid and nothing is being done about it!

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=38 ... rol+Nuendo

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=40 ... rol+Nuendo (There are screen shots of the crash on this thread)

viewtopic.php?f=283&t=147640

These problems, apparently go all the way up to S6! I've seen posts where S6 owners are saying that EUCON doesn't work as well with Nuendo anymore, as well as Logic or DP. Avid has basically made EUCON PT specific! If you want ALL OF THE FEATURES TO WORK, YOU'LL HAVE TO WORK IN PRO TOOLS. So, be very careful about purchasing an S-1 or Artist Series. 95% of the basic features work with non PT DAWs. But lots of features that used to work don't any more as well as the complete omission of newer features. Ver. 18.3 was the last stable version of EUCON with Nuendo. Ver. 19.5 is a total nightmare and full of problems with PT users as well.

If you can come up with another option, look there first!!!

Edit: Just tried out the PT|Control App via macOS Mojave. No crashes here by selecting 'Tracks' on a session with around 50 tracks. I'll try the app out over the next few days and report back.
That would imply that this is a PC Bug then. I'm on Windows 10 as are all of the other complainants. One of the Avid Moderators sent me a video of them using an Avid branded MC Control on the tracks page with no crashing. But they never told me HOW they were able to do this! iPad + Mac = no crashes makes sense.

If that, in fact, is the case, you should still consider the S3. There are lots of them for sale USED at roughly half the price of new. The S3 has several buttons and features not found on the Artist Series . People Say they only need this or that until they find out how convenient/inconvenient this or that actually is in practice. You will want those Control and Alt buttons! On Artist Series, you only get the Shift button. I have found this to be pretty inconvenient, as my goal was to NOT touch a mouse/trackball once I start working with the controller. This, of course isn't possible. But the closer you can get to that realization, the more justification for the purchase in the 1st place.

Something else to consider. Good luck!
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:34 am

Keyplayer wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:36 am
If that, in fact, is the case, you should still consider the S3. There are lots of them for sale USED at roughly half the price of new. The S3 has several buttons and features not found on the Artist Series . People Say they only need this or that until they find out how convenient/inconvenient this or that actually is in practice. You will want those Control and Alt buttons!
Yep, seriously considering the S3. I don't think I'll be able to grab a used one due to my location. I'll probably just pay for the overpriced unit. :cry:
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by miguelnunes » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:35 am

Splaaat wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:34 am
Keyplayer wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:36 am
If that, in fact, is the case, you should still consider the S3. There are lots of them for sale USED at roughly half the price of new. The S3 has several buttons and features not found on the Artist Series . People Say they only need this or that until they find out how convenient/inconvenient this or that actually is in practice. You will want those Control and Alt buttons!
Yep, seriously considering the S3. I don't think I'll be able to grab a used one due to my location. I'll probably just pay for the overpriced unit. :cry:
Go with the S3 if you can. Over the years I had Mackie Mcus, Behringer, Artist series, even an SSL Nucleus. In fact, I had the Nucleus and the S3 for 2 weeks for comparison purposes, I went with the S3.
Although the Eucon implementation is something that is not 100% supported by Steinberg, it still is miles ahead of anything mcu or hui, you can control everything from the S3, even cue mixes, the track coloring is also matched on the S3 leds, wich I consider a must have. Paired with a Dock and iPad, you have everything in your hands, you can macro almost everything, key command almost everything, it really is a game changer unlike the hui or mcu protocols. I do Post work, it’s the perfect controller for tracking VOs, ADRs and Artist Performances ( sound check, monitoring, re recording work), and of course, a great tool for the mixing stage.
The downside? Go to the forums before you update anything Eucon/Steinberg related, at this point and from personal testing, it’s all good.

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:55 pm

miguelnunes wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:35 am
Although the Eucon implementation is something that is not 100% supported by Steinberg, it still is miles ahead of anything mcu or hui, you can control everything from the S3, even cue mixes, the track coloring is also matched on the S3 leds, wich I consider a must have. Paired with a Dock and iPad, you have everything in your hands, you can macro almost everything, key command almost everything, it really is a game changer unlike the hui or mcu protocols. I do Post work, it’s the perfect controller for tracking VOs, ADRs and Artist Performances ( sound check, monitoring, re recording work), and of course, a great tool for the mixing stage.
The downside? Go to the forums before you update anything Eucon/Steinberg related, at this point and from personal testing, it’s all good.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing this miguel. I've contacted my dealer already.

I mostly work with post and music mixing/mastering and it's great to hear it works well. I'm glad the track coloring translates as I would really need that. Does the S3 follow track selection as well? Some of my sessions are fairly large and I was wondering if the S3 would follow the tracks I select on-screen?

Although, I sold my Artist Mix, I still have my Transport Control lying around somewhere. Again, I never got used to the workflow. How do you use your Dock and what purpose does it serve? I haven't looked at the dock much and have never been used to a jog wheel.

Are there any features in the S3 that doesn't translate to Nuendo but works with Protools?

From all the reviews I've watched, the only problem that sticks out is the knobs under the display rather than over.
Nuendo 10 | Mac Mini 2018 | 3.2GHz i7 6-Core 32GB RAM | UAD Apollo X | RME UFX

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