Control Surface for Nuendo

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:18 pm

Regarding S3 if you are on post production 6 outputs is too little. No room to go up from 5.1 (and not even 5.1 if you need cue outs etc) unless you plan not to use included interface. And in that case you kind of pay for something you don’t use or need...
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:21 am

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:18 pm
Regarding S3 if you are on post production 6 outputs is too little. No room to go up from 5.1 (and not even 5.1 if you need cue outs etc) unless you plan not to use included interface. And in that case you kind of pay for something you don’t use or need...
No plans on using it as an interface. It will strictly be a control surface. For surround, I have the Dangerous ST/SR hooked up to the Apollo X/RME UFX.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by miguelnunes » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:04 pm

Splaaat wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:55 pm
miguelnunes wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:35 am
Although the Eucon implementation is something that is not 100% supported by Steinberg, it still is miles ahead of anything mcu or hui, you can control everything from the S3, even cue mixes, the track coloring is also matched on the S3 leds, wich I consider a must have. Paired with a Dock and iPad, you have everything in your hands, you can macro almost everything, key command almost everything, it really is a game changer unlike the hui or mcu protocols. I do Post work, it’s the perfect controller for tracking VOs, ADRs and Artist Performances ( sound check, monitoring, re recording work), and of course, a great tool for the mixing stage.
The downside? Go to the forums before you update anything Eucon/Steinberg related, at this point and from personal testing, it’s all good.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing this miguel. I've contacted my dealer already.

I mostly work with post and music mixing/mastering and it's great to hear it works well. I'm glad the track coloring translates as I would really need that. Does the S3 follow track selection as well? Some of my sessions are fairly large and I was wondering if the S3 would follow the tracks I select on-screen?

Although, I sold my Artist Mix, I still have my Transport Control lying around somewhere. Again, I never got used to the workflow. How do you use your Dock and what purpose does it serve? I haven't looked at the dock much and have never been used to a jog wheel.

Are there any features in the S3 that doesn't translate to Nuendo but works with Protools?

From all the reviews I've watched, the only problem that sticks out is the knobs under the display rather than over.
It does follow track selection.
I mainly use the jog on the dock for fine tune placement of fx or related events that require frame by frame workflow, but with an iPad is a different beast with “soft keys” and the workflow expands as you have more visual real estate for the same tasks (ie: adjust gain, adjust plugin parameters, eq, etc..).
At this moment, there are differences regarding pro tools and Nuendo, mainly on the hardware follows software plugin window and vice versa, you can workaround the issue with a soft key though, nothing game breaking.
Also, some functions are Pro Tools named related, again, you have "soft Keys" to workaround that issue, you just have to tell Eucon how Nuendo does things.
Knobs under under display never bothered me, but be aware that the metering is on the left side of the faders and not on the right side, that was a pain to get used to.

Hope it helps,

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:54 am

miguelnunes wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:04 pm
It does follow track selection.
I mainly use the jog on the dock for fine tune placement of fx or related events that require frame by frame workflow, but with an iPad is a different beast with “soft keys” and the workflow expands as you have more visual real estate for the same tasks (ie: adjust gain, adjust plugin parameters, eq, etc..).
At this moment, there are differences regarding pro tools and Nuendo, mainly on the hardware follows software plugin window and vice versa, you can workaround the issue with a soft key though, nothing game breaking.
Also, some functions are Pro Tools named related, again, you have "soft Keys" to workaround that issue, you just have to tell Eucon how Nuendo does things.
Knobs under under display never bothered me, but be aware that the metering is on the left side of the faders and not on the right side, that was a pain to get used to.

Hope it helps,

Cheers!
Thanks for the update miguel! Looks like I'll be picking up the S3.

Also, if you don't mind some more questions,
- Is it easy to control 3rd party plugins? At least basic EQ, comp parameters?
- Is it possible to route groups easily? Most videos out there only show them working with PT.
- Is it possible to lock the top row of knobs only to sends?

Appreciate all your help!
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Keyplayer » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:42 am

Splaaat wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:54 am
miguelnunes wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:04 pm
It does follow track selection.
I mainly use the jog on the dock for fine tune placement of fx or related events that require frame by frame workflow, but with an iPad is a different beast with “soft keys” and the workflow expands as you have more visual real estate for the same tasks (ie: adjust gain, adjust plugin parameters, eq, etc..).
At this moment, there are differences regarding pro tools and Nuendo, mainly on the hardware follows software plugin window and vice versa, you can workaround the issue with a soft key though, nothing game breaking.
Also, some functions are Pro Tools named related, again, you have "soft Keys" to workaround that issue, you just have to tell Eucon how Nuendo does things.
Knobs under under display never bothered me, but be aware that the metering is on the left side of the faders and not on the right side, that was a pain to get used to.

Hope it helps,

Cheers!
Thanks for the update miguel! Looks like I'll be picking up the S3.

Also, if you don't mind some more questions,
- Is it easy to control 3rd party plugins? At least basic EQ, comp parameters?
- Is it possible to route groups easily? Most videos out there only show them working with PT.
- Is it possible to lock the top row of knobs only to sends?

Appreciate all your help!

READ!!!
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by miguelnunes » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:01 pm

Splaaat wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:54 am
miguelnunes wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:04 pm
It does follow track selection.
I mainly use the jog on the dock for fine tune placement of fx or related events that require frame by frame workflow, but with an iPad is a different beast with “soft keys” and the workflow expands as you have more visual real estate for the same tasks (ie: adjust gain, adjust plugin parameters, eq, etc..).
At this moment, there are differences regarding pro tools and Nuendo, mainly on the hardware follows software plugin window and vice versa, you can workaround the issue with a soft key though, nothing game breaking.
Also, some functions are Pro Tools named related, again, you have "soft Keys" to workaround that issue, you just have to tell Eucon how Nuendo does things.
Knobs under under display never bothered me, but be aware that the metering is on the left side of the faders and not on the right side, that was a pain to get used to.

Hope it helps,

Cheers!
Thanks for the update miguel! Looks like I'll be picking up the S3.

Also, if you don't mind some more questions,
- Is it easy to control 3rd party plugins? At least basic EQ, comp parameters?
- Is it possible to route groups easily? Most videos out there only show them working with PT.
- Is it possible to lock the top row of knobs only to sends?

Appreciate all your help!

-No, its not easy to control 3rd party plugins, at least for me, when you buy an S3 or a dedicated controller for a daw, unless you're working on Post, I see no point in it, so, I tend to control "3rd party" plugs with the mouse, but! The iPad with the S3/Dock had me making some hybrid workflows.
- Yes, it is possible.
- No, the top row basically works as a "main features routing" section for all your connections internally and externally within your daw. What you can do, is to give instructions to control the internal sends and external cues, via fader ( that's what I do).

Someone advised you to look up the forums, I strongly suggest that, but be aware that the problem with most of the forums are the "singular issues", the ones that are related to an individual issue instead of a global Bug.

I can understand your scepticism, after all, this is big money you're investing, and the lack of choices for a middle tier controller... This really is the middle tier of controllers, above that tier? that is only 20K options, either go S6 or Nuage.
That being said, I really think you should invest in an Eucon Controller, the other protocols are wayyyy too dated.

Cheers!

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Getalife2 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:30 am

I fully believe Avid will gradually run Eucon protocol into the ground for everything other than PT. Expect 2-3 years before your Avid hardware investment is no longer fully workable with a DAW other than PT.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:39 am

miguelnunes wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:01 pm
Someone advised you to look up the forums, I strongly suggest that, but be aware that the problem with most of the forums are the "singular issues", the ones that are related to an individual issue instead of a global Bug.

I can understand your scepticism, after all, this is big money you're investing, and the lack of choices for a middle tier controller... This really is the middle tier of controllers, above that tier? that is only 20K options, either go S6 or Nuage.
That being said, I really think you should invest in an Eucon Controller, the other protocols are wayyyy too dated.
Thanks again Miguel. I have gone through the Avid forums, but info pertaining to Nuendo/Cubase is scattered around. I also don't want to get excited about some features relating to PT and then figure out it doesn't work for Nuendo, hence asking here.

It sucks that there aren't many options in this range, but if it speeds up my workflow, it should be alright.
Getalife2 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:30 am
I fully believe Avid will gradually run Eucon protocol into the ground for everything other than PT. Expect 2-3 years before your Avid hardware investment is no longer fully workable with a DAW other than PT.
Surprisingly, they've maintained consistent Eucon support for a really long time. Their support is generally painfully slow. Having said that, there is no way I'll switch to PT. Earlier this year even when a project depended on me using PT, I resorted to AAF and switched to Nuendo. I subscribed to PT Ultimate for a month and maybe it's just me, but I can't seem to get into the PT workflow. I'm very comfortable with Logic, Ableton, Reaper and Cubendo. So, I'll probably sell the unit if they pull such moves.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by miguelnunes » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:11 pm

Getalife2 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:30 am
I fully believe Avid will gradually run Eucon protocol into the ground for everything other than PT. Expect 2-3 years before your Avid hardware investment is no longer fully workable with a DAW other than PT.
That was my main concern when getting the S3, but then I realized they’re making big money out of 3rd party software with a protocol not that hard to implement. They’re literally selling this hardware as a Cubase/Nuendo controller, amongst others, it’s on the first page of the S3 series avid website.
Avid realized the lack of mid tier controllers on the market, at this point is Steinberg that isn’t updating the Eucon adapter more efficiently, there is a large amount of topics on this forum stating that.
But hey, if that happens? I think I can easily sell the S3, it’s not that there’s a lack of Pro Tools users out there.

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Fredo » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:32 pm

miguelnunes wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:35 am
Although the Eucon implementation is something that is not 100% supported by Steinberg, ....
Well, Eucon was originally designed & created by Steinberg. (In collaboration with Euphonix)
When Avid bought Euphonix they "closed down" the Eucon protocol, so they are the only ones who can use Eucon in their hardware.
3th Party developers can use Eucon for their DAW's & other software applications, but they are now depending on Avid for a lot of things.
So most of the time, it is simply because they can't solve certain problems...

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by audiomonkeys » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:13 pm

Would be really nice to se a smaller brother of the Nuage then
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:51 pm

My understanding after recent a 'talk' I had with someone is that pretty much the only people that are willing to spend money on a not cheap controller are people in post, and the vast majority of people in post that use a DAW are using PT. So you take all post users, subtract PT users, subtract those with too little money or space, and then you end up with a very small group of people willing to spend.

So it's apparently very, very difficult to justify the R&D for a new product.

If I could have it my way Steinberg would just release a remote SDK into the wild and then people could crowdfund or diy or whatever. It'd likely end up eating into potential Yamaha Nuage profits, but those probably aren't huge anyway...
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Otto Dix » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:32 pm

Nektar Panorama P1

This german company makes keyboard controllers with DAW integration but the P1 is their dedicated control surface.

No motorized faders but extremely powerful. Nuendo / Cubase implementation. Excellent price / functions ratio.

Dedicated controllers to access directly to insert plugins parameters, sends, VSTis without need of any kind of VST wrapper.
Premap library (including 3rd parties, UAD, Waves, etc..)

https://nektartech.com/panorama-p1/

https://nektartech.com/panorama-cubase/

http://support.nektartech.com/panorama-plugin-maps.html
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:25 pm

I think it's pretty clear 'we' are looking for a device with motorized touch-sensitive faders.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Splaaat » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:59 pm

Otto Dix wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:32 pm
Nektar Panorama P1

This german company makes keyboard controllers with DAW integration but the P1 is their dedicated control surface.

No motorized faders but extremely powerful. Nuendo / Cubase implementation. Excellent price / functions ratio.
I have a Nektar P4 and while I didn't quite get along with the keybed feel, it did have some good integration with DAWs/plugins for music composition. However, for mixing duties I didn't find it quite useful. It has a single motorized fader. Having had the Artist Mix, Eucon I feel is miles ahead for mixing/post workflows.
MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:51 pm
My understanding after recent a 'talk' I had with someone is that pretty much the only people that are willing to spend money on a not cheap controller are people in post, and the vast majority of people in post that use a DAW are using PT. So you take all post users, subtract PT users, subtract those with too little money or space, and then you end up with a very small group of people willing to spend.

So it's apparently very, very difficult to justify the R&D for a new product.

If I could have it my way Steinberg would just release a remote SDK into the wild and then people could crowdfund or diy or whatever. It'd likely end up eating into potential Yamaha Nuage profits, but those probably aren't huge anyway...
Yeah, I agree with this, it could be rather expensive. But, I wish Steinberg would collaborate with 3rd party developers to build some mid-budget controllers or use the Nuage technology to build something for smaller studios. It's sad that Avid has blocked out the Eucon protocol.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:55 pm

Splaaat wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:59 pm
I wish Steinberg would collaborate with 3rd party developers to build some mid-budget controllers or use the Nuage technology to build something for smaller studios. It's sad that Avid has blocked out the Eucon protocol.
From what I understand the WK-Audio controllers were actually really nice, meaning good integration and good quality. And the price really was mid-budget. They stopped making them however and I doubt it was lack of cooperation from Steinberg (thought it's possible) which means it may have been a case of just not making enough profit to make it worth while.

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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Otto Dix » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:12 pm

MattiasNYC wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:25 pm
I think it's pretty clear 'we' are looking for a device with motorized touch-sensitive faders.
I was aware of that. Also, as 'we' are looking for a budget control surface, it's worth to mention possibilities.
Splaaat wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:59 pm
I have a Nektar P4 and while I didn't quite get along with the keybed feel, it did have some good integration with DAWs/plugins for music composition. However, for mixing duties I didn't find it quite useful. It has a single motorized fader.
I feel you.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:54 pm

Ok, well if anything goes then we don't really have a shortage of options. Just pick a budget and shop away.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Otto Dix » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:48 pm

You'd be surprised.
Last edited by Otto Dix on Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:11 am

I probably wouldn't.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by audiomonkeys » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:48 am

This might be an inexpensive solution although I'm not sure how well it works,
Pick yourself up an cheap used Pro Control or Control 24 and run the Neyrinck app. The latest update seems to have some better improvements from the last version which I heard was problematic.
https://neyrinck.com/v-control-pro/
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Keyplayer » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:57 am

audiomonkeys wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:48 am
This might be an inexpensive solution although I'm not sure how well it works,
Pick yourself up an cheap used Pro Control or Control 24 and run the Neyrinck app. The latest update seems to have some better improvements from the last version which I heard was problematic.
https://neyrinck.com/v-control-pro/
Will this app make the controller follow EVERY VIEW OF THE DAW INSTANTLY?? If not, it won't matter. Job one for ANY controller is to follow the DAW regardless of whichever view it shows!!
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by Tumppi Järnefelt » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:30 am

audiomonkeys wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:48 am
This might be an inexpensive solution although I'm not sure how well it works,
Pick yourself up an cheap used Pro Control or Control 24 and run the Neyrinck app. The latest update seems to have some better improvements from the last version which I heard was problematic.
https://neyrinck.com/v-control-pro/
Aren’t pro control and control 24 pro tools only?
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:22 pm

They are.
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Re: Control Surface for Nuendo

Post by audiomonkeys » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:55 pm

they are but with this app of Neyrinck you can also use Nuendo and Logic. Read the article on the link for more info
https://neyrinck.com/v-control-pro/
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