Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

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inthefold
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Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:56 pm

Hi,

I don't expect my suggestion to be forthcoming, but it would be a great feature for anyone that is interested in diving into, and is passionate about, timbre and orchestration. So, here goes:

I'd love Nuendo to include a playthrough visualizer and spatializer that would allow one to position virtual players, single instruments or entire sections of instruments, on a virtual stage and spatialize the audio output, and would also allow the playthrough (thus spatialized) of the audio output of any subset of the given ensemble, from single instruments to entire sections.

All the best,
António

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:13 pm

Hate to be that guy, but... no thanks I think. A million other things are more important and what you're describing is just mixing, just with a visual interface.

We already have a very good panner, and we can also use something like iZotope's plugins for what you seek, so... I'd rather they fix and develop other items first. And Nuendo is the post production app so I think we have more important things to worry about honestly.

PS: If you actually are in post production and need iZotope's RX tools and/or a great reverb then I would recommend looking into their Post Production Bundle 4 version which includes - I think - the plugin that allows you to position things in space visually, along with RX, two 3D reverbs and more.
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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:43 pm

MattiasNYC, you don't have to hate to be that guy, you're just out of the loop... And that's totally fine. This isn't about post-production or "just mixing" with a cute graphical interface, it's about emulating live musical performance. It's about timbre and orchestration, emulating the way music actually sounds in live settings.

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:59 pm

Maybe it's a language barrier then, because "spatialize the audio output" really means things like panning, some gentle EQ filtering, level and reverb. That's just mixing to me.

And I know it wasn't about post-production, that was exactly my point. There are things that post production people need more than what you describe, and since Nuendo is the post app (compared to Cubase) I think it's more important that we get those things instead.

If I'm really misunderstanding what you're looking for then you probably have to be a bit more specific when you describe the feature(s) you want. "spatialize the audio output" isn't specific enough I think.
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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 pm

This isn't about losing it in translation, your english is fine. An actual working example of what I'm suggesting is Vienna Symphonic Library's MIR.

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:25 pm

A quick read-through tells me it's essentially what I was talking about rolled into one set of controls rather than split out into different plugins/routing.

So again, I get it, but I wouldn't support it. You have great panners, great reverbs and more at your disposal already. In addition to that if you already own Vienna then you have what you need no?
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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:29 pm

Like I said, you're out of the loop... And that's totally fine.

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:34 pm

K, it's fine for you to think that, but you should also consider that those at Steinberg that read this might be "out of the loop" as well. Why not make it easy for everyone then and clearly state exactly what it is that I am missing.
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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:54 pm

MattiasNYC, I already gave an actual working example of what I'm suggesting. What you're missing is moveable virtual instruments on a virtual stage, configured to emulate the acoustics of live (physical) instruments being played in a live (physical) setting — you're missing exactly that, a spatializer.

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by MattiasNYC » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:45 am

I think you're just using pretty much the same words in a different order really.

A virtual stage and emulating acoustics basically = panning + reverb + EQ + level. Some tools make some of it easy, others take more work. We have everything from binaural to Dolby Atmos for spatializing sound in 3D space, and fantastic 3D reverbs from companies like Exponential Audio.

So it seems to me that either there's something I'm missing that you're not clearly telling me (us) about since you're using relatively 'vague' words like "spatializer", or you think that there's something that can be done that isn't already possible (with less ease) and you're wrong about it possibly because of terminology.

I have no idea if the Steinberg staff have the time to read a vague post and then go hunting the interwebz for some definition for it on the off chance its what users want.

Anyway, thanks for the condescending tone and good luck.
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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:51 pm

Nothing ought to be unclear about what I said, and I even gave an actual working example for anyone who wants to go full-on on this. "Spatializer" is an actual term used in the industry, and is perfectly valid in this context. In summary, there should be no need for further clarification.

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by Dietz » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:13 pm

@inthefold:

FWIW: VSL is working on a considerable update of MIR Pro right now which will allow for three-dimensional spatialisation. PM me if you want to discuss this any further. :-)
/Dietz

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:13 pm

From the web...

unity:
The audio spatializer SDK is an extension of the native audio plugin SDK that allows changing the way audio is transmitted from an audio source into the surrounding space. The built-in panning of audio sources
may be regarded as a simple form of spatialization in that it takes the source and regulates the gains of the left and right ear contributions based on the distance and angle between the AudioListener and the AudioSource. This provides simple directional cues for the player on the horizontal plane.
Bluelab:
Spatializer is a binaural spatialization plugin. It processes the sound to give the feeling that it comes from a particular direction. It sets the position of the sound source in space and uses an HRTF (head-related transfer function) to compute the result by convolution.
This is more than just a simple pan processing, firstly because the feeling of location is rendered all around the head (in front, behind, several heights…). Secondly, the sound processing takes the shape of the human ear into account.
Oculus:
A set of VST and AAX plugins for previewing Oculus HRTF-based spatialization and room modeling in a digital audio workstation (DAW).
Pretty much what I was saying.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Radeon VII / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX 7/ Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:50 pm

Now, MattiasNYC, you're just trolling...

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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:29 pm

I've never trolled. You've gone from being condescending to insulting.
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Re: Future Contingents: Playthrough Visualizer and Spatializer

Post by inthefold » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:01 pm

Like I said, MattiasNYC, now you're just trolling... I'm out.

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