Odd notes in C7 and Model D

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Johnny B Richman
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Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by Johnny B Richman » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:54 pm

As in the old forum this issue was not solved let me re-open it here (old thread link below)
http://cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=122289

C7 samples in range B3-D4 (C4 being the most obvious) are somehow "wrong" - when playing them (high velocity) some weird nasty resonance / metalic background sound can be heard which is VERY disturbing and makes the whole piano set completely unusable - especially when used as a standalone piano.

Model D has the same issue with D4.
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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by Play-X » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:34 am

Same issue in C7 of The Grand 3 SE.
Weird clanging on B3-D4.
I'm also not quite shure about B0 and B0flat.
The string resonance sounds unnatural somehow.

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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by Johnny B Richman » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:31 am

So Steinberg, can we finally get any comment on this issue, please?
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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by Johnny B Richman » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:28 am

I created some audio files so anybody can check for themselves

01: TG3 C7 plays samples with weird background kind of metaic resonance sound (the last repeated sample is the most obvious)
02: TG1 plays the same part cleanly

*.cpr projesct created in C5 using TG3 and TG1 attached too.
Attachments

[The extension cpr has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[The extension mp3 has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[The extension mp3 has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

Win7 x64 SP1, Intel Core i7-2600K 3,4 GHz, 16 GB RAM, Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD4-B3, RME Fireface 400, MIDISport 4x4, ATI Radeon HD 5750 + 2x HP ZR2440w displays
Cubase Pro 9.0.20, WaveLab 9.1.0, HALion 5

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Johnny B Richman
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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by Johnny B Richman » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:30 am

03. TG3 Model D plays weird samples (last one the most obvious)
04. TG1 again plays the same part cleanly
05: TG3 290 plays all samples cleanly
Attachments

[The extension mp3 has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[The extension mp3 has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[The extension mp3 has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

Win7 x64 SP1, Intel Core i7-2600K 3,4 GHz, 16 GB RAM, Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD4-B3, RME Fireface 400, MIDISport 4x4, ATI Radeon HD 5750 + 2x HP ZR2440w displays
Cubase Pro 9.0.20, WaveLab 9.1.0, HALion 5

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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by John Avery » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:12 pm

Not so much a reply Johnny as a confirmation.

Both the Steinway and the Yamaha sound odd in this range. A sort of metallic after ring. Renders them unusable for me. And now, since upgrading to 3.1, the Bosendorfer has random clicks. Not on any particular note tho' just frequent, random quiet little ticks.

I'm giving up on the Grande 3. Time to get the credit card out and get Ivory 2.

Ah well.
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Oliver
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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by Oliver » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:40 pm

Hi.

What you hear is related to the "Duplex Scale". The Duplex Scale was invented by Steinways & Suns and adds certain resonances to the discant strings with the aim to achieve a greater and more brilliant sound. Due to the construction of the original piano models C7 and the Model D are equipped with the Duplex Scale. The 290 isn't which is the reason why you can't hear any additional resonances.

The goal during recording of TG3 was to reproduce the character of each model and the naturalness more detailed than we did with TG1 and TG2. This is why the Duplex Scale is more obvious compared to older TG versions.

The "Duplex Scale" resonances are a matter of taste. If you prefer less, you can use the "Player View" which was recorded with a higher microphone distance.
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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by Johnny B Richman » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:28 pm

Hello Oliver,

thank you for clearing the situation. However I must say I am not happy about that at all...

FYI the audio samples I made are done with the "Player View" models (see the CPR file I added too) - for the "Close" models the effect is indeed even much more obvious...

I appreciate that Steinberg wanted to achieve a sound as realistic as possible - whether you succeeded or not I cannot tell as I never played these pianos for real. Anyway for me this issue makes C7 and Model D completely unusable as I cannot help myself but being annoyed every time I play these. I don't even need to focus on those keys - after some (short) time it just "attacks" my ears and the whole "piano mood" is spoiled :(

As John Avery mentioned I very probably will go for the Ivory II too - especially after I've learnt that my very favourite Imogen Heap is loving it.
Win7 x64 SP1, Intel Core i7-2600K 3,4 GHz, 16 GB RAM, Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD4-B3, RME Fireface 400, MIDISport 4x4, ATI Radeon HD 5750 + 2x HP ZR2440w displays
Cubase Pro 9.0.20, WaveLab 9.1.0, HALion 5

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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by bob1474 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:24 am

Is the grand 2 also "equipped" with this scale? The odd notes here also, in my case around g2 to a3, using the grand 2 and win 32 bit. I agree that these sounds make it unusable, if that is the case here also (otherwise I don't know what to think). In fact so much that I first went through my audio system looking for bad cables or a broken speaker as a source of "distortion". I'll try Oliver's "fix" if available in the grand 2 to see what happens, but I can't beleive the engineers who assembled these samples left that "ambience" fro the duplex scale in on purpose! Was thinking about purchasing the grand 3 hoping that would be an "improvement" and those (what I call) "artifacts" would be gone. Guess I'll be looking elsewhere for my piano sounds. :|
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Re: Odd notes in C7 and Model D

Post by silverfall » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:18 pm

Hi all,

I just bought my new "The Grand 3" and I too was surprised to hear this metallic noise - on the Yamaha C7 only in my case on B3-D4.

As I understand, it is "by design" to mimic the real piano to 100%. I too think that it is only disturbing and in my opinion shold have been excluded in the sampling process. Is there any workaround here? I am quite new to DAWs and not experienced in EQ, but isn't it possible to filter out those annoying frequencies using EQ in the built-in equalizer of The Grand 3?

If someone who masters EQ could point in the right direction it would be nice. I love "The Grand 3" in all other respects and if these 3 noisy keys can be fine-tuned in configuration this is truly an awesome product.

Hope for a quick answer if this path is at all possible,
Silverfall

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